Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 5   [ 86 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Contradictions in the Bible
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:23 am 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
What did it take for you to "get past" the absurd ideas, contradictions and out right lies contained in the bible?



Swag, if you'd be willing, we can use this thread to discuss some of these alleged contradictions. I'd prefer if we could go one-at-a-time through some of these. It'd be much clearer and more orderly that way.

Post one contradiction and I'm sure you'll get our perspective on it....then we can move on to the next one.

Everyone be nice. Ad homs will get you kicked from this thread very quickly.

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:08 am 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:27 pm
Posts: 23303
As I mentioned too: Make sure he doesn't confuse his interpretation of the Bible with the Bible. His interpretation of the Bible can conflict easily.

_________________
--BobCatholic
I'm praying for the souls in purgatory. Come, let's empty Purgatory with Jesus' help!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:01 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
Sorry .... just saw this thread. Good idea too!

Hmmmmm... lets see. How about we start with biblical accounts of a "resurrection."

Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:04 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:40 am
Posts: 8521
Location: Tennessee
Religion: Catholic
Heck, maybe you can find a few spelling errors a well, swag. How about a real contradiction?

(PS - I went to NBC and ABC newssites yesterday to read a story. Imagine my shock when I found a slightly different version in each story? :roll: )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:09 pm 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
Sorry .... just saw this thread. Good idea too!

Hmmmmm... lets see. How about we start with biblical accounts of a "resurrection."

Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels



That's a good start. I think it'd be better if you provided the citations and presented the verses as well.

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:24 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
Matthew....28:2
Mark......16:5
Luke....24:4
John......20:12



Max Majestic wrote:
swaglantern wrote:
Sorry .... just saw this thread. Good idea too!

Hmmmmm... lets see. How about we start with biblical accounts of a "resurrection."

Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels



That's a good start. I think it'd be better if you provided the citations and presented the verses as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:27 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
Let us understand reality.......also..if you have issues with the "the perception of reslity"....this would undermine the whole bible....how are we to believe anything that's written then?....it could all be innaccurate, mistaken, the product of illnes, and disease...lies.....tale spinning, gross exaggeration etc.etc...

Student wrote:
Heck, maybe you can find a few spelling errors a well, swag. How about a real contradiction?

(PS - I went to NBC and ABC newssites yesterday to read a story. Imagine my shock when I found a slightly different version in each story? :roll: )


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:28 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76057
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
Sorry .... just saw this thread. Good idea too!

Hmmmmm... lets see. How about we start with biblical accounts of a "resurrection."

Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels



IBy the same logic, one could argue that in the Lord of the Rings, there are TWO contraditory accounts of how Frodo was healed from his wound inflicted by the Nazgul. The first says that the was healed by Aragorn, the second account says that he was healed by the elves at Rivendell. Which is right? Or maybe, since it seems unlikely that a book which was written and edited over a period of more than 20 years would contain such a grevious and obvious mistake, maybe the problem is that the reader was not very attentive? That is my point: most 'Biblical contradictions' are very artificial and contrived, and are created as a result of a sloppy or extreme reading of the text, just like these which you have presented here.
Obviously, when 4 different people recount the same event, there are going to be variations, because each individual is going to emphasize different details, it is no 'contradiction'. Hell, forget about '4 different people', whenever I myself tell the same story more than once, there are minor variations in each telling. So what? That is what one should expect, and only an extreme, hyperliteralism, born of a desire to create contradictions where none exist, would be concerned about it.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:44 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
I've noticed that those who insist the Bible contains contradictions tend to read the Bible in a fundamentalistical, hyperliteralist fashion. They insist the Bible is purely of human origin and not divinely inspired, but they don't treat the books of the Bible as if they were written by human beings.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:45 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Quote:
Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels


The answer to your question is "Yes."

Next question.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:51 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 1275
Location: Tennessee
Doom wrote:
Obviously, when 4 different people recount the same event, there are going to be variations, because each individual is going to emphasize different details, it is no 'contradiction'. Hell, forget about '4 different people', whenever I myself tell the same story more than once, there are minor variations in each telling. So what? That is what one should expect, and only an extreme, hyperliteralism, born of a desire to create contradictions where none exist, would be concerned about it.


When were the Gospels written? 70, 100 years after Jesus' death? The apostles did not walk around with taperecorders and video cameras. It seems only natural that, as time went on, some details got forgotten but that does't detract from the truth of the Gospels...

For example, say that I get in a car accident. I tell the officer that a blue car ran a red light and caused me to crash into a fire hydrant. Let's say that in reality, the speeding car was green. That does make the accident any less true?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:53 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:40 am
Posts: 8521
Location: Tennessee
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
Let us understand reality.......also..if you have issues with the "the perception of reslity"....this would undermine the whole bible....how are we to believe anything that's written then?....it could all be innaccurate, mistaken, the product of illnes, and disease...lies.....tale spinning, gross exaggeration etc.etc...

Student wrote:
Heck, maybe you can find a few spelling errors a well, swag. How about a real contradiction?

(PS - I went to NBC and ABC newssites yesterday to read a story. Imagine my shock when I found a slightly different version in each story? :roll: )


Swag, I think it is you who is having a hard time with reality here. You can know that reality exists - and at the same time, you need to learn/find out what that reality is. As far as the Bible goes, God presented His revelation to His CHurch. His Church, through her written and oral teachings (you seem to be pretty familiar with at least the concept of the written teachings - the Bible), provides that revelation to the people with the constant oversight of God. He is the head of the Church. So there is no 'undermining' of the Bible. We believe God's revelation because He gave it to us and He is God. Among other reasons, we believe He is God becuase He did something that no one else has been able to do - resurrect Himself. Don't get the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church confused with a bunch of others who have since taken the Church's writings and used them for themselves or created a whole other set of writings altogether.

Now, can you please tell me how on earth it is that two separate news outlets just yesterday reported on the same story and all they reported wasn't identical? One even said the suspect was wearing a dark blue shirt while the other said the shirt he was wearing was almost black.


Last edited by Tired on Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:54 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
This is so weird......are these not contradictions?.....If a group of people tell a different account of the same story....especially if they insert supernatural identities where others have not.....is this not a contradiction?......huh?

Reality exists in spite of us folks.....perception does not create reality.

Do I need to find the passage in the bible that describes the text as perfect, and beyond reproach?.........but this would be another contradiction..innaccuracy

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:56 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:40 am
Posts: 8521
Location: Tennessee
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
This is so weird......are these not contradictions?.....If a group of people tell a different account of the same story....especially if they insert supernatural identities where others have not.....is this not a contradiction?......huh?

Reality exists in spite of us folks.....perception does not create reality.

Do I need to find the passage in the bible that describes the text as perfect, and beyond reproach?.........but this would be another contradiction..innaccuracy


Apparently, you just don't want to intereact with people's comments. Let me repeat for you...

Student wrote:
Now, can you please tell me how on earth it is that two separate news outlets just yesterday reported on the same story and all they reported wasn't identical? One even said the suspect was wearing a dark blue shirt while the other said the shirt he was wearing was almost black.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:59 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:37 pm
Posts: 2524
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
This is so weird......are these not contradictions?.....If a group of people tell a different account of the same story....especially if they insert supernatural identities where others have not.....is this not a contradiction?......huh?


No, they're not contradictions.

If you and I are observing traffic on a highway, and you say "I see a blue car on the road", and I say "I see a red car on the road", are we contradicting each other? Or are we simply focused on different things? Couldn't we BOTH be right?

_________________
† Brian

"To fall in love with God is the greatest of all romances; To seek Him, the greatest adventure; To find Him, the greatest human achievement." --- St. Augustine

Image


Last edited by Crusader X on Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:01 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 1275
Location: Tennessee
swaglantern wrote:
This is so weird......are these not contradictions?.....If a group of people tell a different account of the same story....especially if they insert supernatural identities where others have not.....is this not a contradiction?......huh?


Ok, let's return to our friend the dictionary, shall we.


Contradiction:
The act of contradicting.
The state of being contradicted.
A denial.
Inconsistency; discrepancy.
Something that contains contradictory elements.

n 1: opposition between two conflicting forces or ideas 2: (logic) a statement that is necessarily false; "the statement `he is brave and he is not brave' is a contradiction" [syn: contradiction in terms] 3: the speech act of contradicting someone; "he spoke as if he thought his claims were immune to contradiction"

Discrepancy:
Divergence or disagreement, as between facts or claims; difference.
An instance of divergence or disagreement. See Synonyms at difference.

Therefore, I guess the answer is yes and no: YES there is a contradiction in the sense that te Gospels are not identical and present different accounts, and NO, there is no contradiction in the sense that the Gospels are not necessarily false.

Zoe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:02 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
swaglantern wrote:
Matthew....28:2
Mark......16:5
Luke....24:4
John......20:12



Max Majestic wrote:
swaglantern wrote:
Sorry .... just saw this thread. Good idea too!

Hmmmmm... lets see. How about we start with biblical accounts of a "resurrection."

Who was at the tomb....

One angel
One young man
Two men
Two angels



That's a good start. I think it'd be better if you provided the citations and presented the verses as well.
I went to the living room and spoke to my sister who was sitting on the couch. Then I went to the kitchen and spoke to my youngest daughter.

How many people were on the couch?

It depends on who tells the story. If my sister told it she would say "I was sitting on the couch with my husband when my brother came and spoke with me". My youngest daughter would say "I was in the kitchen with my sister when dad came in to speak with me.

Nevertheless, there is no contradiction in these stories. One contains more info than the other.

There were several angels at the tomb.

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:10 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
We really don't know how many angels were at the tomb -- all we know is that there was more than one. There were probably more who were not seen, or who were seen but were not mentioned by the Evangelists.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:12 pm 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
I think swag has our response on this one. What's the next contradiction?

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:13 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76057
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
SalomeKaia wrote:
When were the Gospels written? 70, 100 years after Jesus' death?



More like 30-40 years.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 5   [ 86 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


Jump to: