Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 1 of 3   [ 58 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: For swaglantern
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:57 pm 
Offline
Resident Philosopher
Resident Philosopher
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:28 pm
Posts: 11080
Location: Playing Guitar for Siggy's Choir...
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 2nd Deg. KoC, SSFJDOG
Hey Swag...

Welcome to the board. I see in another thread you say you are an intelligent man with a nice personality...

Is that true?

FJ

Edited by FJ to also make a joke... :P

Sorry... I thought Athlete was a typo...

_________________
Ut est rabidus.


Last edited by forumjunkie on Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:59 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
What? I never professed I was an atheist....where be this dastardly thread?

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:05 pm 
Offline
Resident Philosopher
Resident Philosopher
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:28 pm
Posts: 11080
Location: Playing Guitar for Siggy's Choir...
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 2nd Deg. KoC, SSFJDOG
swaglantern wrote:
What? I never professed I was an atheist....where be this dastardly thread?


Ok... so you believe in God? Just not Christianity?

FJ

_________________
Ut est rabidus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:11 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
I respect the truth when truth has been arrived at.....No religion has revealed any truths that cannot be acquired through intelligent and correct reasoning.

Mysticism...lies..innuendo....that is what we have left..and it is not truth.

When you first asked about the "existence of stuff"
A strong, intelligent person would simply state....it is BEYOND our current knowledge on how or why we are here.....we simply DON"T KNOW.....anything else is a lie..... We must continue to gather evidence...facts...etc.... in hopes that they will lead us to truth...anything is a sham.....offensive..and mental abuse.

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:14 pm 
Offline
Resident Philosopher
Resident Philosopher
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:28 pm
Posts: 11080
Location: Playing Guitar for Siggy's Choir...
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 2nd Deg. KoC, SSFJDOG
swaglantern wrote:
I respect the truth when truth has been arrived at.....No religion has revealed any truths that cannot be acquired through intelligent and correct reasoning.

Mysticism...lies..innuendo....that is what we have left..and it is not truth.

When you first asked about the "existence of stuff"
A strong, intelligent person would simply state....it is BEYOND our current knowledge on how or why we are here.....we simply DON"T KNOW.....anything else is a lie..... We must continue to gather evidence...facts...etc.... in hopes that they will lead us to truth...anything is a sham.....offensive..and mental abuse.


Can you give a couple of examples of something we DO know from science?

FJ

_________________
Ut est rabidus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:15 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:49 am
Posts: 8982
Location: St. Francis Hall, FUS
swaglantern wrote:
I respect the truth when truth has been arrived at.....No religion has revealed any truths that cannot be acquired through intelligent and correct reasoning.

Mysticism...lies..innuendo....that is what we have left..and it is not truth.

When you first asked about the "existence of stuff"
A strong, intelligent person would simply state....it is BEYOND our current knowledge on how or why we are here.....we simply DON"T KNOW.....anything else is a lie..... We must continue to gather evidence...facts...etc.... in hopes that they will lead us to truth...anything is a sham.....offensive..and mental abuse.


Ok. Now could you answer fj's question?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:50 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
I don not believe in the supernatural .........period.

Examples of what we do know from science?.......before I waste time on this (no offense) I have to make sure you are serious?

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:53 pm 
Offline
Head Administrator
Head Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:24 am
Posts: 73330
Location: Music City
Religion: Catholic
This is a philosophical/theological debate forum. They're serious.

Siggy

_________________
For the DCF Children Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:55 pm 
Offline
Resident Philosopher
Resident Philosopher
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:28 pm
Posts: 11080
Location: Playing Guitar for Siggy's Choir...
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 2nd Deg. KoC, SSFJDOG
swaglantern wrote:
I don not believe in the supernatural .........period.

Examples of what we do know from science?.......before I waste time on this (no offense) I have to make sure you are serious?


As Siggy said... We are serious. I rarely joke around on these forums... And then, it is usually only after a couple of beers.

FJ

_________________
Ut est rabidus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:57 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:49 am
Posts: 8982
Location: St. Francis Hall, FUS
Ok, so you are an atheist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:02 pm 
Offline
Middle Management
Middle Management
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 28909
Location: Sacred Heart of Jesus
Religion: Catholic
forumjunkie wrote:
swaglantern wrote:
I don not believe in the supernatural .........period.

Examples of what we do know from science?.......before I waste time on this (no offense) I have to make sure you are serious?


As Siggy said... We are serious. I rarely joke around on these forums... And then, it is usually only after a couple of beers.

FJ



Hmmm I wonder if someone has hijacked FJ's account again. :P

_________________
Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:09 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
A fact is defined as reality....something that is true.

So a scientific fact could be a cell membrane..... (this is too easy - no offense).....something on the radio just bleeped out about Iran acquiring atomic power....the list of scientific facts that were verified and proofed to develop the atomic bomb should be enough eh' ......the air we breath....do you think it's possible to isolate everything we breathe or do you think we breathe just oxygen?....gravity......can I hang you off the side of a building and let go?....would you like to argue this one.......I wouldn't. .......See Ayn Rand if you feel like getting into a philosophical discussion on whether or not a chair is really a chair.....Religion, along side bogus philosophical arguments are one is the same really.....just in case you were heading that way.

_________________
And now I see the face of God, and I raise this God over the earth, this God whom men have sought since men came into being, this God who will grant them joy and peace and pride.
This God, this one word:

"I."

Ayn Rand, Anthem


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:17 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:49 am
Posts: 8982
Location: St. Francis Hall, FUS
Ah, the ignorance. None of those are scientific facts. In fact (heh), none of them are scientific at all (and some aren't even facts). They may indeed be facts, but they are not scientific. Science does not prove facts, it explains them. For instance, we all know that what goes up comes back down. That is a fact. Gravity is a theory that explains it (and there are different theories that explain the theory).

Now, religion can be proven in the same sense that any of those can be proven using basic logic and historical facts. For instance: that Jesus lived, was crucified, and was buried is a set of facts. So too is it a fact that His tomb was empty. The Resurrection is a theory that explains the facts. It also happens to be the best one of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:23 pm 
Offline
Honeymoon King
Honeymoon King
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 4:39 pm
Posts: 44272
Location: in marital bliss
Religion: One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree K of C, L of M
swaglantern wrote:
A fact is defined as reality....something that is true.

So a scientific fact could be a cell membrane..... (this is too easy - no offense).....something on the radio just bleeped out about Iran acquiring atomic power....the list of scientific facts that were verified and proofed to develop the atomic bomb should be enough eh' ......the air we breath....do you think it's possible to isolate everything we breathe or do you think we breathe just oxygen?....gravity......can I hang you off the side of a building and let go?....would you like to argue this one.......I wouldn't. .......See Ayn Rand if you feel like getting into a philosophical discussion on whether or not a chair is really a chair.....Religion, along side bogus philosophical arguments are one is the same really.....just in case you were heading that way.


Example 1). We see many similarities between organisms. Therefore, we conclude all living things are descended from a common ancestor.

Example 2). We see many similarities between organisms. Therefore, we conclude all living things were fashioned by the same Creator.


Which one is the bogus argument?

Why?

_________________
We are obliged to believe and confess with simplicity that outside the Church there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. [Pope Boniface VIII]

Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


Holy Mary, Queen of the Martyrs, Pray for us.



Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:27 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
That is by far the most obtuse, jumbled, errant rebuttal I have ever read....sorry - just had to throw that out there........you just told me that you indeed recognize a fact....... look up the word "fact" in your dictionary one more time....once you do that....could you please explain to me again that you do not accept the notion that there are any scientific truths....I will need to hear it one more time....

Catholic Cadet wrote:
Ah, the ignorance. None of those are scientific facts. In fact (heh), none of them are scientific at all (and some aren't even facts). They may indeed be facts, but they are not scientific. Science does not prove facts, it explains them. For instance, we all know that what goes up comes back down. That is a fact. Gravity is a theory that explains it (and there are different theories that explain the theory).

Now, religion can be proven in the same sense that any of those can be proven using basic logic and historical facts. For instance: that Jesus lived, was crucified, and was buried is a set of facts. So too is it a fact that His tomb was empty. The Resurrection is a theory that explains the facts. It also happens to be the best one of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:33 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
Those aren't my arguments?......what are you talking about?

pax wrote:
swaglantern wrote:
A fact is defined as reality....something that is true.

So a scientific fact could be a cell membrane..... (this is too easy - no offense).....something on the radio just bleeped out about Iran acquiring atomic power....the list of scientific facts that were verified and proofed to develop the atomic bomb should be enough eh' ......the air we breath....do you think it's possible to isolate everything we breathe or do you think we breathe just oxygen?....gravity......can I hang you off the side of a building and let go?....would you like to argue this one.......I wouldn't. .......See Ayn Rand if you feel like getting into a philosophical discussion on whether or not a chair is really a chair.....Religion, along side bogus philosophical arguments are one is the same really.....just in case you were heading that way.


Example 1). We see many similarities between organisms. Therefore, we conclude all living things are descended from a common ancestor.

Example 2). We see many similarities between organisms. Therefore, we conclude all living things were fashioned by the same Creator.


Which one is the bogus argument?

Why?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:33 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:49 am
Posts: 8982
Location: St. Francis Hall, FUS
Quote:
That is by far the most obtuse, jumbled, errant rebuttal I have ever read....


I take it you don't read very much then.

Quote:
sorry - just had to throw that out there........you just told me that you indeed recognize a fact....... look up the word "fact" in your dictionary one more time....once you do that....


fact (fkt)
n.
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.

Now, would you mind explaining how my post is at variance with the dictionary definition?

Quote:
could you please explain to me again that you do not accept the notion that there are any scientific truths....I will need to hear it one more time....


I never said that at all. I simply pointed out that you are using improper language, and explained to you what fact actually means.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:43 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:46 pm
Posts: 591
Catholic Cadet wrote:
Ah, the ignorance. None of those are scientific facts. In fact (heh), none of them are scientific at all (and some aren't even facts). They may indeed be facts, but they are not scientific. Science does not prove facts, it explains them. For instance, we all know that what goes up comes back down. That is a fact. Gravity is a theory that explains it (and there are different theories that explain the theory).

Now, religion can be proven in the same sense that any of those can be proven using basic logic and historical facts. For instance: that Jesus lived, was crucified, and was buried is a set of facts. So too is it a fact that His tomb was empty. The Resurrection is a theory that explains the facts. It also happens to be the best one of them.


Natural science does not prove things. It demonstrates experimental confirmation of hypotheses and develops scientific theories.

The resurrection is a hypothesis that explains a reported observation of an empty tomb. Another hypothesis says people stole the body. Both explain the reported observation, but neither hypothesis can be tested.

In natural science, a hypothesis which cannot be tested by experiment remains a hypothesis and does not advance to being a scientific theory.

If one concludes that the resurrection is the best hypothesis, that conslusion is arrived at by a method different from that used by natural science.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:44 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
So.....the only thing left is that you are just playing word games...you most definitely believe in facts(truth)....but you just don't believe in any scientific facts(truths).........uhm yea......find the straight jacket, have someone help you put it back on and take your meds......

Catholic Cadet wrote:
Quote:
That is by far the most obtuse, jumbled, errant rebuttal I have ever read....


I take it you don't read very much then.

Quote:
sorry - just had to throw that out there........you just told me that you indeed recognize a fact....... look up the word "fact" in your dictionary one more time....once you do that....


fact (fkt)
n.
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.

Now, would you mind explaining how my post is at variance with the dictionary definition?

Quote:
could you please explain to me again that you do not accept the notion that there are any scientific truths....I will need to hear it one more time....


I never said that at all. I simply pointed out that you are using improper language, and explained to you what fact actually means.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:45 pm 
Offline
**********
**********

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 857
Neat!....

Yoga wrote:
Catholic Cadet wrote:
Ah, the ignorance. None of those are scientific facts. In fact (heh), none of them are scientific at all (and some aren't even facts). They may indeed be facts, but they are not scientific. Science does not prove facts, it explains them. For instance, we all know that what goes up comes back down. That is a fact. Gravity is a theory that explains it (and there are different theories that explain the theory).

Now, religion can be proven in the same sense that any of those can be proven using basic logic and historical facts. For instance: that Jesus lived, was crucified, and was buried is a set of facts. So too is it a fact that His tomb was empty. The Resurrection is a theory that explains the facts. It also happens to be the best one of them.


Natural science does not prove things. It demonstrates experimental confirmation of hypotheses and develops scientific theories.

The resurrection is a hypothesis that explains a reported observation of an empty tomb. Another hypothesis says people stole the body. Both explain the reported observation, but neither hypothesis can be tested.

In natural science, a hypothesis which cannot be tested by experiment remains a hypothesis and does not advance to being a scientific theory.

If one concludes that the resurrection is the best hypothesis, that conslusion is arrived at by a method different from that used by natural science.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 1 of 3   [ 58 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


Jump to: