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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Ok I have a question where do we get our need and instinctual ability to Love to begin with?

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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:29 pm 
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tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:36 pm 
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MysticalRose wrote:
Ok I have a question where do we get our need and instinctual ability to Love to begin with?


ingrained from God... when He knew us before He formed us in the womb :) :D :wink:

[bible]Jeremiah 1:5[/bible]

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:38 pm 
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G'Kar Moss wrote:
Context: Person A loves person B.


Still not clear enough (the many meanings of "love" are one of the things about which our society is the most confused). Does A have warm fuzzy feelings about B? Does A find B physically attractive? Does A think B has a great personality and a good sense of humor?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:42 pm 
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Love is willing that which is best for another.

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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:48 pm 
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Max Majestic wrote:
tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.


Yes but why is it caused there? :) Sorry Majestic

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The Lord Guideth me to the narrow path
that over time becomes even more narrow
that will mean that I will lose but also gain
Friends that once were will go
And I will be left alone
Only to find that my true friend
The Lord was always with me
And I had nothing to fear at all


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:49 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
MysticalRose wrote:
Ok I have a question where do we get our need and instinctual ability to Love to begin with?


ingrained from God... when He knew us before He formed us in the womb :) :D :wink:

[bible]Jeremiah 1:5[/bible]
Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of whom we are created in the image of... :wink: :D

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The Lord Guideth me to the narrow path
that over time becomes even more narrow
that will mean that I will lose but also gain
Friends that once were will go
And I will be left alone
Only to find that my true friend
The Lord was always with me
And I had nothing to fear at all


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:55 pm 
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this is love

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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:02 pm 
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MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.


Yes but why is it caused there? :) Sorry Majestic



Because the pituitary gland is the doorway to the soul......Descartes said so. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:54 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
G'Kar Moss wrote:
Context: Person A loves person B.


Still not clear enough (the many meanings of "love" are one of the things about which our society is the most confused). Does A have warm fuzzy feelings about B? Does A find B physically attractive? Does A think B has a great personality and a good sense of humor?


Actually, the original question was clear enough. Maybe you missed it, but the question was how to demonstrate that love is more than a feeling. Which implies that I would like to be able to demonstrate/show evidence to someone who thinks love is just emotion that it is not mere emotion, and do so in a logical manner that they could follow without requiring faith in God.

I believe it should be possible to logically determine that love is not merely emotion without necessarily being able to exactly define love.

So whether or not you agree that the original question was clear or not, is that enough context now?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:13 pm 
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G'Kar Moss wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
G'Kar Moss wrote:
Context: Person A loves person B.


Still not clear enough (the many meanings of "love" are one of the things about which our society is the most confused). Does A have warm fuzzy feelings about B? Does A find B physically attractive? Does A think B has a great personality and a good sense of humor?


Actually, the original question was clear enough. Maybe you missed it, but the question was how to demonstrate that love is more than a feeling. Which implies that I would like to be able to demonstrate/show evidence to someone who thinks love is just emotion that it is not mere emotion, and do so in a logical manner that they could follow without requiring faith in God.

I believe it should be possible to logically determine that love is not merely emotion without necessarily being able to exactly define love.

So whether or not you agree that the original question was clear or not, is that enough context now?
In order to demonstrate that love is X, you must define both X and Love and then demonstrate that logically that they are Equal.

So if the point is do demonstrate that love is not "merely" emotion (nothing "merely" about love IMHO) then you must state what else love may be, in addition to or seperate from, an emotional response.


A: Love is "To will what is best for another"
B: An "act of will" may be the result of either an emotional response or a logical intellectual process.
C: One can choose to perform an act for the good of another which is not the result of any "Feelings" one has for them.
D: Therefore one can "Love" without "feeling" love.

I help the Poor, not because I Feel Love, what I feel is pity, but my actions are those of Love.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:18 pm 
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G'Kar Moss wrote:
I believe it should be possible to logically determine that love is not merely emotion without necessarily being able to exactly define love.


And I disagree. In fact, that's the very essence of the question. "Love" is not univocal. Some of the things that we call "love" are emotions, and some are not. The problem arises when people try to apply emotion-based understandings of love when another meaning is intended (such as "God is love", which does not mean God is warm fuzzy happy feelings toward everybody).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:52 pm 
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metal1633 wrote:
In order to demonstrate that love is X, you must define both X and Love and then demonstrate that logically that they are Equal.


I wasn't asking to demonstrate that love is X.

Quote:
So if the point is do demonstrate that love is not "merely" emotion (nothing "merely" about love IMHO) then you must state what else love may be, in addition to or seperate from, an emotional response.


Okay, maybe "solely" would have been a better word than "merely."

I must disagree, however, on your assertion that the "what else' must be known. It is quite possible to take a statement/assertion and using it and logic, demonstrate the assertion to be false. Showing it false does not necessarily show what it must be. I've done that all the time in mathematics, and logic is most certainly not limited to the domain of mathematics.

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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:21 am 
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Max Majestic wrote:
MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.


Yes but why is it caused there? :) Sorry Majestic



Because the pituitary gland is the doorway to the soul......Descartes said so. :wink:


::):

Oh I see .....

::):

OK .... then how is it that we have come to be both flesh and SOUL?

(Debi cannot wait to see Majestic find a way to get around this question, although I have a funny feeling he will find one :P )

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The Lord Guideth me to the narrow path
that over time becomes even more narrow
that will mean that I will lose but also gain
Friends that once were will go
And I will be left alone
Only to find that my true friend
The Lord was always with me
And I had nothing to fear at all


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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:37 am 
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MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.


Yes but why is it caused there? :) Sorry Majestic



Because the pituitary gland is the doorway to the soul......Descartes said so. :wink:


::):

Oh I see .....

::):

OK .... then how is it that we have come to be both flesh and SOUL?

(Debi cannot wait to see Majestic find a way to get around this question, although I have a funny feeling he will find one :P )



Debi, if I had actually solved the problems inherent in dualism, I'd be on a full-ride Ph.D track somewhere. :P

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:40 am 
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Do what Descartes did. Wave your hand at the problem and claim that if people just thought about it more, it would be obvious.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:43 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Do what Descartes did. Wave your hand at the problem and claim that if people just thought about it more, it would be obvious.



*waves hand and invokes jedi powers*

"This is not the philosophical conundrum you're looking for"

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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:26 am 
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Max Majestic wrote:
MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
MysticalRose wrote:
Max Majestic wrote:
tomato moss wrote:
So, take a shot... Is love more than a feeling?


No. It's caused by chemicals released by the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland.


Yes but why is it caused there? :) Sorry Majestic



Because the pituitary gland is the doorway to the soul......Descartes said so. :wink:


::):

Oh I see .....

::):

OK .... then how is it that we have come to be both flesh and SOUL?

(Debi cannot wait to see Majestic find a way to get around this question, although I have a funny feeling he will find one :P )



Debi, if I had actually solved the problems inherent in dualism, I'd be on a full-ride Ph.D track somewhere. :P


Majestic you were doing so good there too.... ::):

In all seriousness though, the point to the whole dillemma that seems to evade peoples minds is that when you boil it all down there really is not way to avoid bringing God into the equation in one form or another.

Yes you can describe feelings, yes you tell us where in the metaphysical sense it takes place inside the brain, so that the feelings are invoked, therefore gaining the reactions and actions of Love.... And I also, will reaily agree that Love takes on many different forms .... But boil it all down and you have to get to how it came to be in the first place that we are capable of Love of anything, of how the petuetary gland works to invoke the action, reaction and therefore emotion associated with Love.

Since this is associated with the ultimate Creator of our Design .... then it is and always will be associated with God, and since we are created in the image of God then this too indicates that the Love we proportion is only proportionate to our ability given to us by the Creator Himself as compared to His capacity of Love .... which is really and truly miniscule in comparison ....

Therefore in reality there is no way to ultimately take God completely out of the equation without, also, not showing reverence for the one that also gave us the capacity in the first place ....

Pax Christi
Debi

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The Lord Guideth me to the narrow path
that over time becomes even more narrow
that will mean that I will lose but also gain
Friends that once were will go
And I will be left alone
Only to find that my true friend
The Lord was always with me
And I had nothing to fear at all


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 Post subject: Re: More than a feeling...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:35 am 
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MysticalRose wrote:

Yes you can describe feelings, yes you tell us where in the metaphysical sense it takes place inside the brain, so that the feelings are invoked, therefore gaining the reactions and actions of Love.....


And there's the rub. Anyone who claims a point-for-point correspondence between the biochemisty of emotion and the qualia of the individual ought to be smacked with a red herring.

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