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 Post subject: The importance of Gabriel and Michael
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:10 am 
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Was Gabriel the angel which appeared to moses from the bush?

He was the one who told Mary about Jesus, and told Muhammed about Allah. If he was the one who appeared with Moses too, that's very interesting. The true founders of all 3 different relgions are from Gabriel. Could Gabriel also represent the holy spirit then, if that makes sense?


Also, I have heard St. Michael will play an important part in the end times, what is that, helping us defeat Satan and giving protection?


Also is st. Chrsitopher a gaurdian angel too?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:52 am 
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It was God Himself Who appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush.

The archangel Gabriel did not appear to Mohammed. How can you think an archangel sent by God could found a false religion?

Nor did the archangel Gabriel found either Judaism or Christianity.

St. Michael plays an important role all the time.

St. Christopher is not a guardian angel.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:05 am 
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what did St. Christopher do?


At least according to Islam, Gabriel appeared to Muhammed and Allah was revealed.


With Moses, it says angel of the Lord appeared, so how isn't that an angel?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:18 am 
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Quote:
what did St. Christopher do?


Very little is known of his life.

Quote:
At least according to Islam, Gabriel appeared to Muhammed and Allah was revealed.


Why do you believe what a false religion tells you?

Quote:
With Moses, it says angel of the Lord appeared, so how isn't that an angel?


It wasn't an angel. It was a theophany, a manifestation of God. Why on earth would you think it was the archangel Gabriel?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:38 am 
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<<With Moses, it says angel of the Lord appeared, so how isn't that an angel?>>

MSG,

"Angel" is a word that means messenger. At times the word angel is used to mean God as being the messenger.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:43 am 
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<<The true founders of all 3 different relgions are from Gabriel.>>

MSG,

Mohammed was deceived by Satan. It was not Gabriel who appeared to him.
God is not divided against himself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:51 am 
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Dorothy wrote:
Mohammed was deceived by Satan. It was not Gabriel who appeared to him. God is not divided against himself.



:sotc

Either that, or it was a hallucination.....desert mirage, so to speak.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:29 am 
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MSG,

Just because someone claims something happened doesn't mean it is true.

You should know this already as you are a member of the politics forum :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:52 am 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
...With Moses, it says angel of the Lord appeared, so how isn't that an angel?


Partial footnote on Sh'mot/Exodus 3:2-5 and Moses' first prophecy, from the Stone Edition of Torah, page 301:

"The Bible describes Moses' vision in three different ways: a fire, an angel, and, finally, G-d. Because this was Moses' first prophecy he had to be exposed to it gradually, like someone in as dark room whose eyes cannot tolerate an immediate exposure to blinding sunlight. First, Moses was shown a fire that was strange because it did not consume the bush. This excited his curiosity to investigate, something he would not have done had he realized that a G-dly holiness was resting upon it. Then it was revealed to him that an angel was in the fire; and once he became accustomed to this new phenomenon, he was given the vision of G-d Himself (R'Bachya). Thus, too, G-d introduced Himself as the G-d of Moses' father, Amram; only then did He say that He was the G-d of the patriarchs."

The portion in the text about the angel begins (transliterated, in Ashkenazic pronunciation):

"Vah-EIR-ah mah-LAKH Ad-*-NOI ..."

(Note: in deference, Jews do not pronounce this last word and six other Names of G-d except in prayer, when the * is replaced with an "-oh-"). As Dorothy mentioned elsewhere, "mah-LAKH" (a form of MEH-lekh) most commonly means "messenger." It connotes "someone who is given power by G-d in a specific setting, for a specific role, for a specific duration, with a specific directive"; so, sometimes we see it used to describe non-angelic roles.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:23 pm 
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seanie wrote:
MSG wrote:


At least according to Islam, Gabriel appeared to Muhammed and Allah was revealed.


Why do you believe what a false religion tells you?




Seanie,

In all fairness, she is not saying she believes it, but rather than Islam teaches that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:33 pm 
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Don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:03 pm 
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<<Don't Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel?>>

I don't know about that....but I know that they believe Jesus was
Michael the archangel!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:10 pm 
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thank you Brandan! Amen to you.

For lack of better terms, according to what I gotta know for my test next week on Islam, Gabril told Muhammed :)

We are taught from a historical and non-biased point of view and from sources of each relgon for my relgions class. According to Islamic sources, Gabriel appeared and told about Allah to Muhammed.



Where is there evidence it wasn't Gabriel but Satan? Who's to say it wasn't and God wasn't trying to help? I mean, Mecca was very pagan with ovre 300 gods being worshipped at a place that was once for Abraham. Gabriel's a very good and powerful angel. I mean, he wouldn't of been sent to Mary if he was just anybody. Whether its a "fasle" relgion or not, that doens't mean Gabriel couldn't of shown up.

God probably showed himself to Muhammed to try and help them end paganism, which did happen for the Muslims.


Just because I don't agree with all of Hinduis, that doesn't distort whehter I would ask for facts about (acccording to them) who did what and so on.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:25 pm 
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Max Majestic wrote:
Dorothy wrote:
Mohammed was deceived by Satan. It was not Gabriel who appeared to him. God is not divided against himself.



:sotc

Either that, or it was a hallucination.....desert mirage, so to speak.
Mohammed himself believed it was a demon because every time it appeared he sufferd pain and convulsions. (perhaps a tumor?). But one of his wives (who was also a medium) convinced him it was from the God Allah , who was an ancient Arabian moon deity. He combined the teachings of this Allah with elements of both Judaism and Catholicism and so began the sect of Islam, which in ancient times was not viewed as a separate religion but as a heresy, a corruption of the true faith.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:29 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
Where is there evidence it wasn't Gabriel but Satan? Who's to say it wasn't and God wasn't trying to help?



1 John 2 This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. 3 But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now.


The "angel" taught Mohammed that Jesus was only a human prophet.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:35 pm 
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^^^^ I'm still meaning according to history and a non-biased source, is it Gabrial? Aka what I should know for my test? If it isn't, then I accept that. Just saying form what I am taught in a classroom, it is Gabriel.


Anyboyd know who the angel Raphael was? Or is that just baroque art and made up?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:44 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
^^^^ I'm still meaning according to history and a non-biased source, is it Gabrial?


That's the thing. There is no objective history that says anything about it. Your professor isn't offering you a non-biased source....only a biased one, specifically the Qu'ran.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:45 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
^^^^ I'm still meaning according to history and a non-biased source, is it Gabrial? Aka what I should know for my test? If it isn't, then I accept that. Just saying form what I am taught in a classroom, it is Gabriel.


Anyboyd know who the angel Raphael was? Or is that just baroque art and made up?
According to History and Non-Biased sources, Mohammed suffered pain and convulsions during his "Visions" and he believed it was a demon until one of his wives convinced him it was an ancient Arabian moon deity named Allah. Mohammed later decided that Gabriel sent the visions from this Allah.

St Raphael is in the Bible. He is one of the Archangels.

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 Post subject: Re: The importance of Gabriel and Michael
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:11 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
Was Gabriel the angel which appeared to moses from the bush?

He was the one who told Mary about Jesus, and told Muhammed about Allah. If he was the one who appeared with Moses too, that's very interesting. The true founders of all 3 different relgions are from Gabriel. Could Gabriel also represent the holy spirit then, if that makes sense?


Also, I have heard St. Michael will play an important part in the end times, what is that, helping us defeat Satan and giving protection?


Also is st. Chrsitopher a gaurdian angel too?


My Saving grace...I need for you to read either one of these books:

"Islam and Terrorism" or "Jesus and Muhammad" both are by Mark A Gabriel...Read about this authors background and you'll want to buy these books...

Dr. Mark Gabriel memorized the Quran completely by age twelve and grew up totally immersed in Islamic culture in Cairo, Egypt. A former Islamic teacher and scholar, he graduated from the world-renowned Al-Azhar University in Egypt with both a masters and doctorate degree in Islamic study. Upon questioning his faith in Islam, Gabriel endured torture as well as personal and professional ostracism. He left Egypt and sought exile in South Africa where he was discipled in Christianity. Currently Dr. Gabriel lives in the United States under religious asylum.

Islam does not point to Jesus, Our Lord and Savior, it draws people away from Christianity and points to Muhammad. The only religion that believes in one God and teaches to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you is Christianity. That's what makes us children of God, is loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us. Anything that teaches otherwise are false religions, and not what God wants us to follow, He wants us to follow Jesus, period, not Muhammad, and Muhammad does not point Muslims to Christ, He even threatens Muslims with their lives within the Qu'ran if they leave Islam. And those who do not submit to Islam, will be killed, or have to pay a tax for toleration, and if they don't, then they are killed. It's not Muslims that are the problem. Most are kind-hearted, but these Muslims are not strictly adhering to the Qu'ran. It is Islam started by Muhammad. Read about Muhammad's life and how the religion was spread...Anyway, it's all in those books above...PLEASE Read them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:05 pm 
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MSG,

<<Anyboyd know who the angel Raphael was? Or is that just baroque art and made up?>>

Raphael is in the book of Tobit, one of the books of the Old Testament that was eliminated at the time of the Reformation. It is not in the Protestant Bible. It is still in the Catholic Bible, along with several other books.

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