Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 17 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: The Matrix Trilogy... Have I been had?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:50 pm 
Offline
Resident Philosopher
Resident Philosopher
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:28 pm
Posts: 11093
Location: Playing Guitar for Siggy's Choir...
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 2nd Deg. KoC, SSFJDOG
Ok... I am/was a huge Matrix fan... In fact, I typically use the first movie in many of my classes as a way to teach the concepts of Objective v Subjective Reality... And, I love the religious symbolism in all 3 especially the second movie... And I was convinced that the 3rd movie revealed a clearly Catholic symbolism at the end when Neo sacraficed himself to end the war... The imagery looks EXACTLY like a Monstrance and Neo (the Christ figure) is at the center as a brilliant light...

But, as I watched it again this weekend, it dawned on me that it might actually be a big DIG on Catholicism... My reflection on it before was that the bad guy at the end (the machine Monstrance) represented the wrath of God the Father, and Neo was the Son... But, perhaps it is trying to say that religion, especially Catholicism, is the PROBLEM, in that it is trying to make everyone the same... And Neo, who is all too human throughout, is the breaking away and defeat of Catholicsm...

What do you think? The brothers who made the film have purposefully been silent on their intention of the movie...

FJ

_________________
Ut est rabidus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:29 am 
Offline
**********
**********
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:58 am
Posts: 2969
Well these movies are based on gnosticism so I don't think they have a pro-orthodox Christian agenda. That being said the first movie was fresh and imaginative. The next two movies made me feel they just wanted to play the game gotcha on the audience and they were not imaginative in the same fresh way the rist one was but more an exercise in CGI special effects the thinking angel of the first movie was distorted into the game of gotcha and how many plots and twist can I give the audience till they don't what the heck this series is about?
Anyways that's why I hated the last movie in particular.

_________________
" They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]). Ignatius of Antioch


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Matrix Trilogy... Have I been had?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:56 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76254
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
forumjunkie wrote:
What do you think? The brothers who made the film have purposefully been silent on their intention of the movie...

FJ



I think that your single biggest mistake is making the assumption that there is any intelligence or substance in either of The Matrix sequels. These films are intellectually incoherent, it is impossible to discern anything other than gobbledygook from them.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:01 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82127
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
The first was an interesting film, although the over-the-top violence was disturbing. I think they used up all their good ideas in the first, because Doom is right. At least, I assume he's right about the third; I was disappointed enough by the second (even without the thoroughly gratuitous sex) that I never have bothered to see the third.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:05 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76254
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
My opinion of the trilogy is that the Wachowski brothers had a one semester course in Philosophy 101 in college and decided to use up everything they learned from that one course, so one moment the movie takes up point of view, runs with it for awhile, then gets bored and takes up another point of view, and so on and so forth, until they use up everything, but draw no firm conclusions. It ends on an existentialist note, but the adoption of existentialism is just as phony and inconsequential as every philosophy it used up earlier.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:51 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 8:00 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
Religion: Catholic
Well if somethings not Good, then it has to be bad.
i thought the movies challenged the idea of a compassionate creator.
i was not comfortable with them, however i'm still mad at Disney for killing the mother.

_________________
Rejoice in The Lord, Always!
And again I say, Rejoice!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:23 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
I like the first movie and was very disappointed with the other two. To be fair to the authors, they had to stop in the middle of production and do a major rewrite because of the deaths of two actresses who played main characters.

Although I have to add that the first movie really was not all that original in that both it and Terminator are based on a story by Harlan Ellison called "I have no mouth and I must Scream". Another variation on a theme.

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:52 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76254
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
metal1633 wrote:

Although I have to add that the first movie really was not all that original in that both it and Terminator are based on a story by Harlan Ellison called "I have no mouth and I must Scream". Another variation on a theme.



I don't know about The Matrix, but The Terminator is not based on anything by Harlon Ellison, it is based on a dream that James Cameron once had in the late 1970's, when he dreamed that he was being chased by a man made out of metal, and that the metal man could walk through fire.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:06 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 178
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Well, I'm a huge fan of the Matrix trilogy, if you couldn't tell. I knew that the first one would be hard to top, so I didn't expect the second two to top it in the first palce, that way I wasn't let down :wink:

However, sometimes people can be philisophical without even knowing it. I don't give the W brothers much credit, especially because a lawsuit was swept under the table in regards to the script. Another author sued them because they stole vast amounts out of her script of a similar concept, and they ended up settling out of court. But, anyway, sometimes we read more into the movies than the authors intended to be there.

I think it was John Steinbeck who had a graduate student comment about a dog in one of his books and the meaning behind it. He droned on and on with his theory while talking to John, and when he finally asked John his opinion, he simply replied "Son, it was just a d*mn dog." I think the anecdote probably applies here.

But, back on topic. There was a strange contradiction between the imagery of the movie and a particular comment in the first of the trilogy. At one point, when describing the Matrix to Neo for the first time, Morpheus states "The Matrix is all around us...you can feel it when you go to Church." It is a definite insinuation that the "feeling" is merely a computer generated false reality. But, this seems to contradict the tone of a Messiah figure that has powers that transcends the "pretend" world.

But, the religious imagery is beyond words. From Neo's "scourging" when he fights with Agent Smith and loses his sight to the position he is in when he is hooked into the Matrix for the final battle (an obvious crucifixtion position). I think, basically, they wanted you to get the image of a Messiah figure without obviously linking to Christianity, of which it is hard to separate the two.

_________________
"What in the world is a moderate judge? What is a moderate interpretation of the Constitution? Halfway between what it really says and what you'd like it to say?"

-Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

"Today, a particularly insidious obstacle to moral education is the overwhelming presence in our society and culture of a type of relativism that recognizes nothing as definitive."

-Pope Benedict XVI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:22 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Doom wrote:
metal1633 wrote:

Although I have to add that the first movie really was not all that original in that both it and Terminator are based on a story by Harlan Ellison called "I have no mouth and I must Scream". Another variation on a theme.



I don't know about The Matrix, but The Terminator is not based on anything by Harlon Ellison, it is based on a dream that James Cameron once had in the late 1970's, when he dreamed that he was being chased by a man made out of metal, and that the metal man could walk through fire.
Harlan Ellison won a lawsuit against James Cameron alleging that elements of the plot of Terminator were taken from his short stories Soldier, Demon with a Glass Hand, and I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream. Newer prints of Terminator acknowledge Ellison.

The authors of the Matrix also acknowledge Ellison's inspiration for their work. And paid him a nice royalty.

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Last edited by metal1633 on Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:26 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82127
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
The Wikipedia article agrees with the Ellison influence. I didn't pick up on it, but then I don't much like Ellison's writing anyhow.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:32 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The Wikipedia article agrees with the Ellison influence. I didn't pick up on it, but then I don't much like Ellison's writing anyhow.
I kinda like his stuff. You know they asked him to write the Star Trek pilot but they didn't like it very much so went with another story. He did write the only Star Trek episode to win an award. "City on the edge of Forever".

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:34 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82127
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
metal1633 wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The Wikipedia article agrees with the Ellison influence. I didn't pick up on it, but then I don't much like Ellison's writing anyhow.
I kinda like his stuff. You know they asked him to write the Star Trek pilot but they didn't like it very much so went with another story. He did write the only Star Trek episode to win an award. "City on the edge of Forever".


Which had to be heavily re-written because his story, while great, wasn't a Star Trek story.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:39 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
metal1633 wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The Wikipedia article agrees with the Ellison influence. I didn't pick up on it, but then I don't much like Ellison's writing anyhow.
I kinda like his stuff. You know they asked him to write the Star Trek pilot but they didn't like it very much so went with another story. He did write the only Star Trek episode to win an award. "City on the edge of Forever".


Which had to be heavily re-written because his story, while great, wasn't a Star Trek story.
I read an account of the filming of many of the episodes and many of the scripts were re-written as they were filming just to make them work. The working scripts were filled with hand writing in the margins with whole sections crossed out.

""Hey this reads great but we are on a BUDGET here, Can't do this...Can't do that..."

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:42 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82127
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I believe the problem is that Ellison had Starfleet crew members acting in a way that Roddenberry wouldn't buy. You can check for yourself; Ellison published his script in the late 1990s.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:56 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I believe the problem is that Ellison had Starfleet crew members acting in a way that Roddenberry wouldn't buy. You can check for yourself; Ellison published his script in the late 1990s.
Oh I believe you. And his script wasnt the only one ....uummm... butchered. ( Sorry Gene. Love Ya ) I am a geek. I have read all the scripts and seen all the shows and movies and read the books and have the cartoons on tape for my kids who hated them and they totally hate that their dad is a sci-fi freak."'Why can't you be cool like Uncle Scott??"" Blah Blah.

Sorry I am venting because they are mad I took over the TV room to watch the Stargate marathon. And it seems modern teenage girls can't live without watching Degrassi and so they mope about complaining how NOW I come out of my study to watch TV. When THEIR Show is on....

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:59 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 6067
Location: Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Ok Back on topic.

Matrix Trilogy... Could have been better. But it really could have been worse so I think we got off lucky.

_________________
O love that fires the sun
Keep me burning


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 17 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


Jump to: