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 Post subject: Question for bonaventure
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Bonaventure, thanks for the Bible references in the other thread about the "coming of the Son of man" (why is He sometimes called "the Son of man" and sometimes called "the Son of God"?!!!).

You never got around to explaining why you believe:
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Actually just about every second of His life was brutal suffering. I always cringe when the burning question that some people have about Our Lord is "did Jesus laugh?"

What makes you think "just about every second of His life was brutal suffering"? (I'm just curious.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Torn I'm really sorry that I didn't see this until now and that I forgot to repsond to you in that thread :DOH!

I guess I believe this because of some of the writings of the saints that I have read. Saint Alphonsus quotes some mystics in his works "The Incarnation Birth and Infancy of Jesus Christ" and the "Passion and Death of Jesus Christ".

Our Lord had before His mind the whole time he was alive what would happen to him. Say for instance that you knew the people you loved the most would soon break into your house and murder you. This would kind of put a damper on just about everything that you were doing. In a similar sense, Our Lord always knew that He would be rejected, tortured, and betrayed at every moment.

Also being a Divine Person and taking on a Human Nature had to be very hard in some sense. Our Lord as God could not suffer, but as Man He could. If one had never known suffering before and then all of the sudden it came upon you, I would think that it would be very acute.

Our Lord from the beginning had to endure trials. He was barely born and already people were trying to murder Him. Think of how bad it must hurt a man to be rejected by the woman he loves so much and would do anything for.....so much more did it hurt the Sacred Heart of Jesus to be rejected by us men whom He loves so much.

I will say that all this is my opinion and I could be wrong.

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Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:22 am 
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I see what you mean - how, being human, He would have suffered a lot of hurt, and on top of that, knowing what was ahead of him would have have been dreadful. But nevertheless I have always assumed that, being also divine, He would have experienced a lot of divine love and joy and "the peace of God which surpasseth all understanding", and that He would have lived in the moment rather than dreading the future. Luke 10:19-21 suggests that He rejoiced at least some of the time:

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Behold, I have given you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions and upon all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall hurt you. But yet rejoice not in this, that spirits are subject unto you: but rejoice in this, that your names are written in heaven. In that same hour, he rejoiced in the Holy Ghost and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to little ones. Yea, Father, for so it hath seemed good in thy sight.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:39 am 
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Good point. The Saints also say that when we submit to God's Will (Our Lord certainly was), even the greatest suffering can in some sense be joyful if we are doing God's Will.

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Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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 Post subject: Re: Question for bonaventure
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:34 am 
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torn wrote:
Bonaventure, thanks for the Bible references in the other thread about the "coming of the Son of man" (why is He sometimes called "the Son of man" and sometimes called "the Son of God"?!!!).


The "Son of Man" part does help with the Two Natures doctrine, but it's more of a reference to Daniel 7.

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