The Catholic Message Board
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=33999
Page 1 of 1

Author:  BlueyedMule [ Sun May 29, 2005 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Anybody have a good overview article online from a Catholic perspective? Or any good orthodox Catholic analysis of what he believed, wanted to teach, and the repudiation of his errors? I find him most referenced in New Age circles for his talk of "Christ-consciousness" and "Cosmic Christ". (When Matthew Fox shuffles off this mortal coil I guess de Chardin will have a roomie.)

Thanks, ya'll!

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Sun May 29, 2005 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

BlueyedMule wrote:
Anybody have a good overview article online from a Catholic perspective? Or any good orthodox Catholic analysis of what he believed, wanted to teach, and the repudiation of his errors? I find him most referenced in New Age circles for his talk of "Christ-consciousness" and "Cosmic Christ". (When Matthew Fox shuffles off this mortal coil I guess de Chardin will have a roomie.)

Thanks, ya'll!


I got in argument at my college about this guy. He is not a heretic I say, but an apostate.

No!!! I had an article on my comp (I wrote it) but it is gone

I think one quote (that I remember) is enough to dismiss him "I am essentially a pantheist"

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Sun May 29, 2005 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

Oh, his first and fundamental heresy that led him to his view of an evolving universe with an alpha and omega point (Christ is the summit of evolution), is that he denies that the knowledge of faith differs from that of empirical science, that they are two modes of knowing. I'll find something, hold on

Author:  BlueyedMule [ Sun May 29, 2005 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 

I saw a quote that was his pantheistic one, but since it wasn't in any kind of context I have no way of knowing for sure how to take him.

Let me say straightforward, though, I'm more likely to be lumped in with the Sungenis crowd than the Chardin crowd when it comes to much of this end of science. I don't debate about it, but I'm a young-earth guy who thinks a Genesis literalism is a much more safe place to be. I don't have the time of day for evolution as Darwin stated it. In fact I hear that Darwinism is dead (amongst the inner circle of evolutionists) since punctuated equilibrium raised it's equally ridiculous head. I'll cede that the sun is the center of our universe though. ;)

mule, scientific ludite

Author:  seanie [ Sun May 29, 2005 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

Wolfgang Smith wrote a book demolishing his writings called "Teilhardism and the New Religion".

It's very hard to read, though.

Here's another beauty from Teilhard de Chardin:
Quote:
"What we call inorganic matter is certainly animate in its own way . . . Atoms, electrons, elementary particles . . . must have a spark of spirit." (Science and Christ, written 1920s, published in English in 1968)

Author:  St Veronica [ Sun May 29, 2005 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

*sigh* our local priest recently recommended (during the homily) that we all should read Chardin.....his recommendations of books isn't improving with time....the last time he recommended a book, it was the Davinci Code.


SV

Author:  truthseeker [ Sun May 29, 2005 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 

SV, I'm sighing here too! As a student at an all-girl Catholic high school years ago, I had a nun who devoted an entire religion class to Chardin. I remember having to do an extensive project about him. It was many years later when I realized what he was all about. . . :roll:

Author:  Bonaventure [ Sun May 29, 2005 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dietrich Von Hildebrand has an excellent article on him in his book the charitable Anathema, I'll try to dig it out later and post some of his points.

Author:  David Hopkins [ Mon May 30, 2005 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 

Was he ever excommunicated or charged formally with be a heretic?

Author:  seanie [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:41 am ]
Post subject: 

David Hopkins wrote:
Was he ever excommunicated or charged formally with be a heretic?


No, but his writings were condemned many times by Rome. I list the condemnations here:

www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/newage/dechardin.html

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

seanie wrote:
Wolfgang Smith wrote a book demolishing his writings called "Teilhardism and the New Religion".

It's very hard to read, though.

Here's another beauty from Teilhard de Chardin:
Quote:
"What we call inorganic matter is certainly animate in its own way . . . Atoms, electrons, elementary particles . . . must have a spark of spirit." (Science and Christ, written 1920s, published in English in 1968)


Sounds like Whitehead to me. (He was wrong, too, so I don't offer that in defense of Chardin.)

Author:  ressourcement [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Henri de Lubac

I would read a couple books by de Lubac, written during the era that Chardin was popular, to get an "offensive" perspective of Chardin when he was thriving. The books:

1. Teilhard de Chardin: The Man and His Meaning
2. Teilhard Explained

For a contemporary look at Chardin, also from an offensive perspective, I would consult Ursula Kings Spirit of Fire: The Life and Vision of Teilhard de Chardin, and excellent overview of his life and work.

For a critical view of him I would consult a couple back issues of The New Oxford Review. My father-in-law, William Hoyt, wrote a couple articles on Chardin back in the mid 1990's before the NOR became terribly polemic in approach.

I would suggest, by the way, that you approach the work of Chardin with your own eyes, taking the criticism of others for what they are worth: 98% hearsay. Most people who are critical (and there is certainly something to be critical of) have never read anything of his.

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

I do not need to read his heretical works. In fact, I advise people not to. Tis a danger. And Lubac has his problems as well (though at least he was a theist, Teilhard was, in his own words, a pantheist)

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

Admonition

Several works of Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, some of which were posthumously published, are being edited and are gaining a good deal of success.

Prescinding from a judgment about those points that concern the positive sciences, it is sufficiently clear that the above-mentioned works abound in such ambiguities and indeed even serious errors, as to offend Catholic doctrine.

For this reason, the most eminent and most revered Fathers of the Holy Office exhort all Ordinaries as well as the superiors of Religious institutes, rectors of seminaries and presidents of universities, effectively to protect the minds, particularly of the youth, against the dangers presented by the works of Fr. Teilhard de Chardin and of his followers.

Given at Rome, from the palace of the Holy Office, on the thirtieth day of June, 1962.

SEBASTIANUS MASALA, Notarius

Author:  ressourcement [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
I do not need to read his heretical works. In fact, I advise people not to. Tis a danger. And Lubac has his problems as well (though at least he was a theist, Teilhard was, in his own words, a pantheist)


Ok. I do not personally agree with him, but that is because I read what he had to say.

If you have not read his work, then I would exercise restaint in the form of criticism you give anyone, theologian or not, dead or alive. I have personally found, in the past, a difficulty in balancing "informed criticism" and "slander" rooted in "hearsay". I think it to be all the more productive to simply say, "I have heard from a trusted source that..." rather than make accusations, which may be true, of "heresy" towards a person you have never read and, admittedly, do not wish to. Not all are called to read the works of people like Chardin, but those people are also, probably, called to not defame there character on the basis of hearsay.

I would encourage you to bring up the problems that you have with de Lubac in another thread--should be an interesting discussion!

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

You are right, he was not a heretic, but an apostate and an idiot

I have read him. He is a dangerous (or was, he is dead) nutcase. A monist, a pantheist. His views are, besides being self contradictory, utterly opposed to every facet of Catholic thought.

The Church had his work in the Index. Thoug abolished, the principle behind it remains. One reads heretics and apostates at peril of their souls. Why do people forget this?

Author:  ressourcement [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
You are right, he was not a heretic, but an apostate and an idiot

I have read him. He is a dangerous (or was, he is dead) nutcase. A monist, a pantheist. His views are, besides being self contradictory, utterly opposed to every facet of Catholic thought.

The Church had his work in the Index. Thoug abolished, the principle behind it remains. One reads heretics and apostates at peril of their souls. Why do people forget this?


I understand your criticism of him. While I think it would be more fruitful to discuss his actual theological formulations than call him names like "nutcase", I respect your intense desire for piety and orthodoxy.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/