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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:57 am 
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Hammer of Heretics
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Does not humor proceed from irony? When the intellect perceives an incongruity between the ideal order and the way things really are? Also, timing seems to be a constituent part of humor; I know when something seem funny to us, timing is of the essence as well as content.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:38 am 
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Max Majestic wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Look at it this way? Is humor in and of itself sinful? I know that depending on the bent you take, it can be, but in and of itself is humor sinful? I would say no. If it is not sinful then I would think that it's perfection would be found in God.



St. Anselm would LOVE that argument. :D ....but it still might need to be fleshed out some more. Take sleepy, for example. "Sleepy" isn't in and of itself sinful, but we wouldn't say that the perfection of sleepiness is found in God.


No, but he rest on the seventh day :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:20 am 
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Matthew wrote:
Does not humor proceed from irony? When the intellect perceives an incongruity between the ideal order and the way things really are? Also, timing seems to be a constituent part of humor; I know when something seem funny to us, timing is of the essence as well as content.


Seems to pretty much rule out the possibility that God the Omniscient can possess a sense of humour. On the other hand, it probably also rules out the possibility that Our Lord possessed mirth, which is hard to believe.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:40 pm 
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God created humor.

I thought Balaam's donkey was pretty humorous.

Jesus liked to spend time around kids...can't do that without a sense of humor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:55 pm 
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Alex wrote:
God created humor.

Humour is a result of the fall actually, att least in my opinion.
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Jesus liked to spend time around kids...can't do that without a sense of humor.

He was Man and God. It was as Man that He had human attributes (like humour)

BTW, I don't mean "result of the fall"= bad. Humour is good. It is a reaction of a discursive intellect in seeing the disproportion of things. Risibility is then a property of rationality, insofar as it belongs to rational beings to move discursivesly in their intellect. Thus, angels even would not have risibility, as they are not rational but intelligent creatures, and God too has no discursive knowledge

In simpler language. Man is rational. This means that his intellect proceeds sucessively though things. We do not grasp things all at once, but must make some motion in though. Risibility, or humour, comes in when (as Matthew said) there is a disproportion between the ideal order and the way things actually are, or (in some sense) when our mind comes to unexspected conclusion. In this way it is a result of the fall (the Fall being the source of disproportion) and not an attribute of any creature other than man (as said above, angels are not rational, but intelligent. They grasp at once. No movement, no time in thought). God also does not move discursively, so no humour for Him as well

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:10 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
God also does not move discursively, so no humour for Him as well


We are made in God's image. Why wouldn't God laugh? Everything is possible with God.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:23 pm 
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Alex wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
God also does not move discursively, so no humour for Him as well


We are made in God's image. Why wouldn't God laugh? Everything is possible with God.


?

Yes, we are imago Dei

But that means we are spiritual beings. Our souls are spiritual. Utterly simple. If I (or rather my soul, I will not be in heaven when I die but my soul will be hopefully) were in heaven, then would have a similar operation of my intellect like angels, namely non-discursive. I would know at once those things presented to my intellect and would be without risibility.

But since we are also material beings, and this indeed is a principal of our nature and we are not persons without it, are intellect is naturally attached to our senses and body. It is in this way that our intellect moves discursively, as it is only with material things that time exists. And it is because of this discursiveness that we have humour.

To just say everything is possible with God is a very meaningless response. Does God cry? Of course not. At least, qua God. You say that the Second Person laughs, cries, et cetera qua Man, not qua God. (oops. silly me qua=as) We are in God's image, but yet our intellects work in time because they are connected to our material bodies. God and angels are without time (the former being Eternal the latter existing in aeternum) and thus do not have risibility.

You must ask yourself what is humour before you respond with God's Omnipotence.

Indeed. As I (and every person I have reasoned this out with) have understood risibility and humour, to say God has humour would be to deny His perfection (since it require a motion of the intellect, which God does not do). One might as well say "all things are possible to God. Why wouldn't He move discursively?" And of course to say He does would be to deny His Omniscience.

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Last edited by Pro Ecclesia Dei on Wed May 18, 2005 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:28 pm 
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I would never presume to limit God in any sense.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:31 pm 
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Alex wrote:
I would never presume to limit God in any sense.

See my edited post. You have already by claiming He could laugh (that is, be risible)

As Aristotle might put it "Risibility belongs per se to man in that it belongs to the speech making clear the what it is [of man]" And St. Thomas (when speaking of the Trinity) talks of properties held in common or those that are strict properties, giving risible of man as an example (meaning it belongs to no other thing in the what it is)

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:39 pm 
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I have not been smacked by a lightening bolt. Thus God has a sense of humor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:20 pm 
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Catholic Cadet wrote:
I have not been smacked by a lightening bolt. Thus God has a sense of humor.

Define humour please

If people just used words with a knowledge of what they meant (it might be humourous that you have never been struck, but humour lies with you there)

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:39 pm 
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PED, the fact that you don't have a sense of humor doesn't mean God doesn't either.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:00 am 
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Catholic Cadet wrote:
PED, the fact that you don't have a sense of humor doesn't mean God doesn't either.

What sort of childish retort is that?

Believe me, I have a sense of humour. I just wish people were not so rash about speakng of God. Before you claim God is humour (for God is what He has) know what humour is first. God does not have a discursive intellect, therefore under the definition of humour that I and Matthew and philosophers use in general, to say God has a sense of humour is meaningless for it would lessen the perfection of His knowledge and immutability.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:14 am 
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PED, I had made a joke.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:44 am 
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Catholic Cadet wrote:
I have not been smacked by a lightening bolt. Thus God has a sense of humor.


Best laugh of the day. Thanks Catholic Cadet! :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:12 pm 
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Catholic Cadet wrote:
I have not been smacked by a lightening bolt. Thus God has a sense of humor.

Or a bad aim!

Did you ever hear the joke about the two priests who were out playing a round of golf? One of them kept missing his long putts; close but not in the hole. He'd hold his fingers a few inches apart and exclaim:"Damn it! Missed by that much!!". His golfing partner kept warning him about his language - "Watch out. God will get you if you keep using language like that."

Finally, on the eighteenth hole with the friendly gold match on the line, the swearing priest again missed a close putt and again swore "Damn it! Missed again by an inch!!" The heavens immediately darkened and a lightning bolt sprang forth, missing the swearing priest and hitting his warning comrade. The voice from heaven proclaimed: "Damn it!. Missed by that much!!"

Edward Pothier


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:32 pm 
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i find it necessary to be surprised to laugh....
and Jesus is never surprised by us.... He knows us too well.
i don't believe Jesus laughs but He sure smiles a lot..... :cloud9:
Best!motsfo

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:39 pm 
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Jesus has a human nature. When asking if God is risible, one is speaking of His divine nature. To bring Christ into it without looking to see whether it is a falculty of His divine or human natures seems to me to miss the qquestion.

I say this for one reason. I believe Christ is risible (iow, He has humour). Why? Because He is Man and it belongs to man, as a specific property to be risible

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Technical terms aside (and it's always dangerous to do away with those :wink: ), my old priest once mentioned in his homily that Christ must've liked to jest every now and then. When He performed miracles and warned His apostles not to tell anyone what they'd seen or heard... this was surely humorous. He knew they wouldn't be able to keep their mouths shut.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:51 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Alex wrote:
I would never presume to limit God in any sense.

See my edited post. You have already by claiming He could laugh


David seemed to think He laughs:

Psalm 2:4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.

Psalm 37:13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming.

Psalm 59:8 But you, O LORD, laugh at them

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