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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:04 am 
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Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
I just pointed out that you are confusing your own personal preferences with morality.

You don't know him, so you don't know what his personal preferences are or how he was raised. You can't "just point out" something about someone's personal preferences of which you have no knowledge.

That's not the point, Peregrinator, I perceive and assume that the music PED has recommended is the music he personally prefers - he can correct me if I am wrong - but the point is that the music he has recommended (whether he personally prefers it or not) is in no way morally superior and has got absolutely nothing to do with morality, so I have no idea why he posted what he posted in this thread, and even moreso now that it appears that even he thinks it has nothing to do with morality.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:07 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil".

I can think of a few songs that could be described as glorifying sex, but there's nothing wrong with sex, it's because our parents enjoyed sex that we are here (I don't want to think about that!), there are very few songs that definitely glorify adultery or sex outside of marriage. Songs that refer to drugs don't necessarily glorify drugs, and taking drugs isn't necessarily immoral. I can't think of any songs that glorify taking hard drugs like heroin or cocaine. And as for songs that glorify "general immorality", I have no idea what you mean - name one song that glorifies "general immorality".

Did Shakespeare glorify murder? Did Shakespeare glorify sex outside of marriage or immoral behaviour? I don't think so, do you? But he wrote about them.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil”



https://youtu.be/GgnClrx8N2k

That one took me about .00000000001 seconds to think of....do you really want me to start a list?

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:04 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil”



https://youtu.be/GgnClrx8N2k

That one took me about .00000000001 seconds to think of....do you really want me to start a list?

Do you think that's a song which pays homage to the devil or merely a song about the devil, about the evil in the world? There is a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Do you think that's a song which pays homage to the devil or merely a song about the devil, about the evil in the world? There is a difference.


The word “sympathy” implies....never mind. I’m not going to start an endless debate with you that begins with what the sympathy means or the words of the song and so on ad nauseaum. I’ve learned my lesson.

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:05 am 
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Peetem wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Do you think that's a song which pays homage to the devil or merely a song about the devil, about the evil in the world? There is a difference.


The word “sympathy” implies....never mind. I’m not going to start an endless debate with you that begins with what the sympathy means or the words of the song and so on ad nauseaum. I’ve learned my lesson.

It's not a matter of the definition of 'sympathy', which is obvious, it's a matter of who is suggesting that there should be sympathy for the devil, and if you listen to the song it's very clear that it's the devil who is asking for sympathy for the devil.

If you were to think that it's Mick Jagger having sympathy for the devil, then you would equally have to think that Mick Jagger has sympathy for the people who crucified Jesus, for the people who assassinated President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, sympathy for the German army in World War II, gleeful about decades-long wars, etc, which is absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:49 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil”



https://youtu.be/GgnClrx8N2k

That one took me about .00000000001 seconds to think of....do you really want me to start a list?


That song does not pay homage to the devil, if you pay attention to the lyrics what he's saying is that everyone blames the devil for everything but it's actually human evil that is the real problem, in other words, human beings are so evil we don't even need the devil to tempt us we do it on our own. That's the message of the song

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:10 pm 
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It's quite common for me to not remember the words of songs. It's always the beats that stick with me. I can see how beats themselves orient people in a certain direction, which is fairly clear to most of us. We will incline to defend it if it sounds and beats we like, but we know what it does to us and to others. If all one can muster is that it's good for exercise, it's good to ask why that is?

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:26 pm 
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Riverboat wrote:
gherkin wrote:
There may well be music that could be just as motivating but that isn't heavy metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZP5U6SW_08

You get bonus points for posting a link to Alison Krauss!


At least a thousand. If not more.

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There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.


Doom and I are in accord. A novel, but pleasant, situation.

_________________
Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:30 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil".

I can think of a few songs that could be described as glorifying sex, but there's nothing wrong with sex, it's because our parents enjoyed sex that we are here (I don't want to think about that!), there are very few songs that definitely glorify adultery or sex outside of marriage. Songs that refer to drugs don't necessarily glorify drugs, and taking drugs isn't necessarily immoral. I can't think of any songs that glorify taking hard drugs like heroin or cocaine. And as for songs that glorify "general immorality", I have no idea what you mean - name one song that glorifies "general immorality".

Did Shakespeare glorify murder? Did Shakespeare glorify sex outside of marriage or immoral behaviour? I don't think so, do you? But he wrote about them.


A double accord. Sounds like a pre-WW I diplomatic alliance.

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:36 pm 
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But let's stop all this discord and enjoy a nice traditional folk song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNdOCQYOL8

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:15 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
But let's stop all this discord and enjoy a nice traditional folk song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNdOCQYOL8

That song glorifies armed robbery, drunkenness, murder, and stealing guitar riffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:48 pm 
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I hadn't considered that. The guitar riffs, I mean. Heinous.

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:26 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Doom wrote:
There is nothing morally problematic with Metallica, nor with most heavy metal or rock and roll music.


Dude, I love heavy metal music and generally hold your opinions in high-regard. But this comment is shockingly asinine.

It would be easy, without any effort whatsoever, to provide an very long list of songs that glorify sex, drugs and general immorality. While the list would be shorter, it would still be easy to provide a list of songs that pay homage to the devil in some way - directly or indirectly.

There are songs that are not about these subjects. But to say that “most” aren’t morally problematic is, well, I’ll just say is very, and overly, optimistic thinking.



I think you're greatly overestimate the the amount of rock and roll or heavy metal music that is about the subject matters you just described. Most rock and roll music is about the same thing that all pop music is about romantic love, appeared in most cases of memorized over simplified and unrealistic vision of it.

I'm a big fan of pop and rock music of all kinds from all the decades and I've never heard any song that pays "homage to the devil".

I can think of a few songs that could be described as glorifying sex, but there's nothing wrong with sex, it's because our parents enjoyed sex that we are here (I don't want to think about that!), there are very few songs that definitely glorify adultery or sex outside of marriage. Songs that refer to drugs don't necessarily glorify drugs, and taking drugs isn't necessarily immoral. I can't think of any songs that glorify taking hard drugs like heroin or cocaine. And as for songs that glorify "general immorality", I have no idea what you mean - name one song that glorifies "general immorality".

Did Shakespeare glorify murder? Did Shakespeare glorify sex outside of marriage or immoral behaviour? I don't think so, do you? But he wrote about them.



Sympathy for the Devil by the Rolling Stones? I was always warned away from their music. I'm sure my parents had sex but they never talked about it. Prince, for example, went overboard with immoral sexual content. There was that song by Eric Clapton about a certain drug. Morris Day and The Time? Jungle Love? I turned off FM radio in the mid-90s because it went over the cliff. Shakey Spear was no rock n' roller.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:30 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Highlander wrote:
But let's stop all this discord and enjoy a nice traditional folk song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNdOCQYOL8

That song glorifies armed robbery, drunkenness, murder, and stealing guitar riffs.


And it sounds terrible.

Much better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlWTASnnft4

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:27 pm 
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I've given that up, simply since it was the soundtrack, if you will, to my sinful lifestyle. I listen to a lot of Christian rock and metal, just as good for workouts. Some will poo-poo on that here, but I bet you would like it, and you won't get lyrics that either promote sin, or mock it. Like anything, not all of it is good, still have to be discerning.

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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:34 pm 
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Understand. And applaud your decision. Which, however, is not mine and, perhaps, others, path.

The issue here seems to be that some music is inherently sinful. Which is probably the case. However, one argument being presented is that, if I assert that a piece of music is sinful, then so it is. And all must accept my determination.

Another argument is that, since I hear nothing sinful in a piece of music, nor does it stir me to sin, then it's just music. And others may react differently. I prefer the second argument, while acknowledging that it does not apply to all music.

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick Moral Question on Music
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:41 pm 
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Not all, but much of it, nor do I make that some sort of law for others. Meaning that I have not given up all of it.

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