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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye to the forum
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:14 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Denise Dee wrote:
Gandalf the Grey wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You are up against 2,000 years of mystical/ascetical theology, whose great teachers uniformly insist on mortification of the will. The one who preaches, "I am the master of my fate: / I am the captain of my soul," is not Jesus Christ.

"Mortification of the will" means surrendering your will to God's will (as far as that's possible), it shouldn't mean surrendering your will to some other human being's will.

You are not the master of my fate: / you are not the captain of my soul, he is not the master of my fate: / he is not the captain of my soul, she is not the master of my fate: / she is not the captain of my soul.


Placing yourself at the submission of those in established authority who you know that are just sinful as you are is itself a deep mark of humility in the eyes of God.

If you resist submitting your will to someone who speaks with God's authority you are in effect resisting God's will and authority.

Pope Francis is "in established authority", more than anyone, Pope Francis "speaks with God's authority". Yet a lot of people here don't seem too keen on placing themselves at the submission of Pope Francis.


I've seen evidence that would suggest that Francis' authority is not as established that many people might presume, if for no other reason than the fact that Pope Benedict is still alive, among several other curious things that led to Francis' election.

Let's try to keep red herrings in this thread to a minimum, shall we?

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:25 pm 
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Mmmmm...herring.

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:55 pm 
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Pope Francis has authority. Very rarely does he use it to command.

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 Post subject: Re: Goodbye to the forum
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:14 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Death to self-will is an important part of growth in discipleship.

Thank you for this. I really needed to hear it.

I'd be pleased if you explain this a little more, so that I can put this firmly in my mind.

Growth in holiness is, among other things, an increase in conformity to the will of God. Our own wills are often divergent from God's. By practicing obedience in situations where sin is not involved, we learn to set aside our own desires and open ourselves up to doing God's will, even when it is not welcome or not what we would do on our own.

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:38 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Thank you very much

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:34 am 
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Considering that many spiritual directors more than likely support the Left (since the Catholic Church received millions of dollars from the Democratic Party).

Over half of Catholics here in America are liberals Democrats. And the ones that aren't either don't care enough to rock the boat, and are neither hot nor cold, or are simply to scared to offend people. I don't think a man who does not have his own house in order can tell someone such as myself how to run my life.

In short I am saying that the majority (though not all) of spiritual directors have no clue what God's will is, and have no idea what they are talking about.

Though, it is possible that good advice can come from anyone if it is based on an orthodox conservative worldview.

Besides, my brother is my spiritual director if you wanna call him that, cause he's the best guy I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:47 am 
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Have you any idea what most spiritual directors are like? No, you just ran together a string of assumptions to reach a nonsensical conclusion that is unjust to one set of people and manifestly unhelpful and misleading for another.

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:02 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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CoconutBlanket wrote:
Considering that many spiritual directors more than likely support the Left (since the Catholic Church received millions of dollars from the Democratic Party).


So you'd have us believe that the party which is staunchly anti-anything-Catholic is giving the Church millions?


Quote:
Over half of Catholics here in America are liberals Democrats. And the ones that aren't either don't care enough to rock the boat, and are neither hot nor cold, or are simply to scared to offend people.


Quote:
I don't think a man who does not have his own house in order can tell someone such as myself how to run my life.


Well that goes without saying. Obviously not everyone who calls themselves a "spiritual director" is cut out for it. At bottom it's a vocation, not just a career choice.

Quote:
In short I am saying that the majority (though not all) of spiritual directors have no clue what God's will is, and have no idea what they are talking about.

Though, it is possible that good advice can come from anyone if it is based on an orthodox conservative worldview.

Besides, my brother is my spiritual director if you wanna call him that, cause he's the best guy I know.


If you want to believe that Catholic orthodoxy is synonymous with political conservatism (especially for what accounts for American conservatism in the age of Trump) you're going to in for a rude awakening.

Orthodox Catholicism is something that is way more complex and dynamic than something that just can be fit into a modern political ideology.

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"End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise."


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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:06 am 
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Gandalf the Grey wrote:
CoconutBlanket wrote:
Considering that many spiritual directors more than likely support the Left (since the Catholic Church received millions of dollars from the Democratic Party).


So you'd have us believe that the party which is staunchly anti-anything-Catholic is giving the Church millions?


Quote:
Over half of Catholics here in America are liberals Democrats. And the ones that aren't either don't care enough to rock the boat, and are neither hot nor cold, or are simply to scared to offend people.


Quote:
I don't think a man who does not have his own house in order can tell someone such as myself how to run my life.


Well that goes without saying. Obviously not everyone who calls themselves a "spiritual director" is cut out for it. At bottom it's a vocation, not just a career choice.

Quote:
In short I am saying that the majority (though not all) of spiritual directors have no clue what God's will is, and have no idea what they are talking about.

Though, it is possible that good advice can come from anyone if it is based on an orthodox conservative worldview.

Besides, my brother is my spiritual director if you wanna call him that, cause he's the best guy I know.


If you want to believe that Catholic orthodoxy is synonymous with political conservatism (especially for what accounts for American conservatism in the age of Trump) you're going to in for a rude awakening.

Orthodox Catholicism is something that is way more complex and dynamic than something that just can be fit into a modern political ideology.

In the UK nobody ever suggests that you can't be a good Catholic if you "support the Left", or if you support the Right. There are Catholic politicians in all the parties, Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrats, Scottish Nationalists, Greens. I've never heard anyone say or suggest that a politician can't be a true Catholic because of the political party they support.


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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:41 am 
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It happens a lot in the US.

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:16 pm 
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the list is so very long... let me count the ways .........

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 Post subject: Re: Obedience to a Spiritual Director
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:52 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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It's precisely why I'm not affiliated with a political party. Political parties are themselves ideologically driven and thus they're going to emphasize sone things at the expense of others.

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"End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise."


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