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 Post subject: Re: For TheJack - God is good
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:06 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Location: As I understand it.....in God's will. This is the best place to be.
Religion: Orthodox (In Communion With Rome)
Church Affiliations: Past Grand Knight KoC 15107
Gandalf the Grey wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
I'm still certain that no person in their right mind would freely choose eternal suffering.


There's the fly in your ointment.

Despite appearances, we aren't in our right minds, especially when it comes to those who are in the midst of serious habitual sin.


But isn't that the issue. We aren't in our right mind or our right existence. Didn't Christ come to defeat that and change it? It has taken my 70 years to get where I am today, which is still very far from where I am supposed to be. Some, like the saints, achieve this healing more quickly in chronological time. Others in this life never even hear about Christ. Are you saying that there is no chance in the next life for them to be shown both the truth of Christ and the truth of their own existence?

Quote:
You think those members of your family freely chose the suffering which has resulted as a consequence of taking cocaine and heroin, but do you honestly believe that they or anyone would freely choose eternal suffering?

Yes. They made it quite clear that they would rather suffer the consequences if destroying relationships in order to have their drugs rather than not have their drugs.


I guess this comes down to the difference in this life vs the difference in the next life. I find myself thinking that the soul will have no pleasure to fall back upon, no fleshly temptations or addictions to keep it in a state of illusion, but will be faced with two truths: the reality of its sin and the reality of Christ. That leaves one question: will the soul be able to be changed in the next life? Catholic theology seems to think so because we pray for the dead, which indicates that there is the potential for change or improvement of their status.

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It doesn't make sense, why would anyone want eternal suffering?

You're right, it doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that they still don't want it.


This is based on several assumptions which seem problematic. If you are in a state of illusion, how can it really be said that you are making a freewill choice to choose suffering over bliss. The illusion of sin in this life blinds the soul to reality and addicts it to pleasure so that it cannot make a truly free choice. The only free choice will be when the flesh is no longer a part of the process and the soul can see clearly what it is and what it is being offered.


Quote:
Why would God create people who want eternal suffering?

Wrong question. And you're falling back on the method of blaming God instead of blaming people who ought to know better, and who do know better, yet choose it anyway because they place something else besides God as their ultimate good and end.


You present a false choice for people. Millions (billions?) have lived and died without even coming to hear of the true God or the Gospel. Are they to be given no choice but to suffer? Millions of others have been deceived by the evil one, the lusts of the world, and other illusions so that they cannot really be said to be making an unhampered free will choice. It seems to me that what Dee is pleading to is the justice of God in giving every soul a truly free will choice to either accept union with Him or reject Him. And only when that choice is free of coercion, trickery, deceit and other illusions can that truly be a free choice.

If I give you a gift(life), and you throw it away, it's not my fault that you did that, it's yours.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: For TheJack - God is good
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:45 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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I've already quoted this:

CHRYS. While it is day, He adds; i.e. while men have the opportunity of believing in Me; while this life lasts; The night comes, when none can work. Night here means that spoken of in Matthew, Cast him into outer darkness. Then will there be night, wherein none can work, but only receive for that which he has worked. While you live, do that which you will do: for beyond it is neither faith, nor labor, nor repentance. ( quoted in Catena Aurea, John 9)

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: For TheJack - God is good
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 9453
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
Light of the East wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Dr. Peters can be plenty snarky when he puts his mind to it.


Most men of brilliant minds can tap into a wide range and variety of clever insults that leave the recipient gasping for air.


http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... l.html?m=1

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... s.html?m=1

Those two links are Feser on polemics.


To LotE, though, the Feser I recommend now is him on eternal damnation, which I've already linked to. viewtopic.php?p=2820417#p2820417

Especially in light of your can-souls-convert-after-death remark.

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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