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 Post subject: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Has the Church mandated that a hylomorphic understanding be held? I'm thinking specifically of the Council of Vienne here.


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:23 pm 
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That the soul is the form of the body is dogmatically defined, IIRC. That seems to sort of require hylemorphism.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:57 pm 
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It might be better said that some truths required by the faith are readily supported by and imply hylomorphism, including the relationship of the soul and the body. It would be hard to think how the both the words and truth of "the soul is the form of the body" could be upheld coherently without some form of hylomorphic view.

but things like hierarchies of substantial forms, how the forms of elements are present in composites are free to debate... Though, not with the backing of the demands of the faith, but just asserting where reason leads, there are pretty definitive answers here

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:20 pm 
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And would the view of the form actualizing the potential of the matter thus follow pretty much necessarily from this as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:44 pm 
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If not follow directly, then something so very much like it I don't think it'd be worth the fight of saying it wasn't really hylomorphism.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:51 pm 
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Good to know!

It would seem that if we're to avoid a soul-as-harmony dilemma that the form would have to be the 'thing' acting on the matter.

The topic came up in a class I'm in due to a presentation which was given by Fr. Nicanor attempting to reconcile philosophy (and theology) with certain scientific theories.


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:53 pm 
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Good to know!

It would seem that if we're to avoid a soul-as-harmony dilemma that the form would have to be the 'thing' acting on the matter.

The topic came up in a class I'm in due to a presentation which was given by Fr. Nicanor attempting to reconcile philosophy (and theology) with certain scientific theories.


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:19 pm 
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You can say that again.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:11 pm 
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Whoops. Sorry folks, if I knew how to delete the extra I'd do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm 
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You're scarcely the first person to have done that. Nearly everyone has earned a YCSTA award at some point. Welcome to the club.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You're scarcely the first person to have done that. Nearly everyone has earned a YCSTA award at some point. Welcome to the club.

I don't recall ever having done that, but you did say nearly.

8-)

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You're scarcely the first person to have done that. Nearly everyone has earned a YCSTA award at some point. Welcome to the club.

I don't recall ever having done that, but you did say nearly

8-)

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:18 pm 
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You're just not one of the cool kids.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:32 pm 
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You can definitely say that again

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:50 pm 
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You're just not one of the cool kids.

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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:10 pm 
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...hylomorphic understanding of .....what? I think the answer would depend on the individual existent being in question. Otherwise the answer is a most helpful one: yes and no.


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 Post subject: Re: Hylomorphism
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:37 pm 
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Well, everything that exists with matter also has form, outside prime matter (which is just pure potentiality and does not exist without form). So any individual existant thing, outside God and angels do have form and matter (and are thus hylomorphic). In living things - vegetation, animals, man - the form is a soul.

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