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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:57 pm 
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The Jesuits are (or were :() the kings of scholastic theology (the Dominicans did it better, I think, but the Jesuits are a much bigger order and much more influential, I think), yet every Jesuit makes the Spiritual Exercises as part of his formation. The Spiritual Exercises are nothing if not experiential.

Saint Bonaventure was the 7th Minister General of the Franciscans, and he is well-known for promoting the view that the bliss of Heaven is affective and not intellectual, as many Dominicans would say; yet he was also a prominent scholastic theologian.

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux was a well-known theologian, but he was also a famous mystic and poet, including this:

"1 Jesus, the very thought of thee
with sweetness fills the breast;
but sweeter far thy face to see,
and in thy presence rest.

2 O hope of every contrite heart,
O joy of all the meek,
to those who fall, how kind thou art!
How good to those who seek!

3 But what to those who find? Ah, this
nor tongue nor pen can show;
the love of Jesus, what it is,
none but his loved ones know.

4 Jesus, our only joy be thou,
as thou our prize wilt be;
Jesus, be thou our glory now,
and through eternity."

Certainly intellect without heart can become cold. It is alleged that this was the state of Scholasticism at the time of Luther--I don't know enough to say. Certainly also heart without intellect has a track record of leading people into really strange ideas (George Fox, James Nayler, ). We need both. Most people will find one more appealing than the other, and that's fine. But both are needed; neither one can flourish without the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:07 pm 
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I'd have to track them down, but there are saints (unless my memory fails me completely) who had mystical experiences in which they were able to reconcile God's love and mercy with the existence of Hell. Do those not count?

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:40 pm 
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Thank you for sharing the hymn, Father. It is beautiful. Are you aware of any rendition which is easy to sing and the words are pronounced clearly?

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:38 am 
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I will try to remember to check YouTube later today.

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:09 pm 
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No luck. Sorry. None of the ones that are intelligible are set to the right melody (which is the one I grew up singing).

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:42 am 
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I don't need the "right" melody, only a sing-able one. I need to be able to hear the words clearly so that I can learn it,

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:12 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
I don't need the "right" melody, only a sing-able one. I need to be able to hear the words clearly so that I can learn it,

Write one!

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:32 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
I don't need the "right" melody, only a sing-able one. I need to be able to hear the words clearly so that I can learn it,

Then search YouTube for "Jesu the Very Thought of Thee," find one with understandable words and a tune you like, and go for it. In general, avoid recordings of congregations singing, because such recordings usually aren't understandable.

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:14 pm 
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I couldn't find any video that was just right. I ended up following theJack's advice.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:13 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
I couldn't find any video that was just right. I ended up following theJack's advice.


It's better in Latin and you can find all sorts of recordings... Just search "Jesus Dulcis Memoria"... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... is+memoria

My personal favorite is only the first and last verse sung by Audrey Assad. Some don't like it because she adds a lot of ornamentation and organum harmony. But, I liked it and taught it to my music class this year. It is really stunning live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUKWyvlZ6r8

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:30 pm 
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To go back to the topic of discussion, it is interesting to note that the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) actually has a very strict policy on this. If you are in communion with them, you are not supposed to take part in not just the public prayer of people you aren't in full communion with - including other so-called confessional Lutherans (such as members of the the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, LCMS) - but you cannot even take part of their private prayers, including a blessing before a meal. The only exception is if you are yourself leading the prayer. But Eucharistic communion is, pun intended, off the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:05 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Mortal Sin to Attend Orthodox Rituals?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:08 am 
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