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Capital Punishment
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=169735
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Author:  Howard Kopsho [ Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Capital Punishment

Anybody who is against capital punishment for first degree homicide does not accept the Bible as the Word of God because the Bible sanctions capital punishment for first degree homicide.

Author:  Denise Dee [ Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Howard Kopsho wrote:
Anybody who is against capital punishment for first degree homicide does not accept the Bible as the Word of God because the Bible sanctions capital punishment for first degree homicide.

It would be helpful if you would actually quote the part(s) of the Bible you are referring to.

I think what you have said is very simplistic. The Bible "sanctions" many punishments which Christians are not required to obey.

For example, according to Leviticus 20:10,

'If a man commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, both the man and the woman who have committed adultery must be put to death.'

Howard, do you seriously believe that people who commit adultery should be put to death, because the Bible "sanctions" it, and that anyone who is opposed to the death penalty for adulterers "does not accept the Bible as the Word of God"?

Or should we understand what Jesus taught, regardless of what the Old Testament may have taught?

John 8:3-7

'The scribes and Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery. When they had put her in the middle, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such, but what do You say?” They said this, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him.

But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear them. So when they continued asking Him, He stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Author:  Jack3 [ Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

@Howard: DP is legitimate in principle. Some people are led astray by Pope Francis about DP and media reports thereof. Some people think that they have to assent to everything that a Pope says. (It's objectively wrong; when Vatican I defined Papal infallibility, they worded themselves very carefully. But my point remains - some people are firmly convinced that they have to agree with the Pope on everything) For them, opposition to DP springs from a desire to uphold the Pope and orthodoxy.

@DD: The Church interprets Scripture.

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Anyone who thinks the death penalty is intrinsically evil is, as you said, wrong. But while the moral law of the OT is unchangeable, the ceremonial and judicial laws are not. In fact, it can be sinful to follow the ceremonial!

Now, take adultery. That carries the death penalty. But even in the middle ages this was not the norm. Sixtus V in the 16th century pushed to establish the death penalty for adultery but it didn't take.

Now, let us leave aside the issue of guilt. Lets say we have no errors in convictions.

Should rapists be executed? Child molesters? Well I think they deserve it. But one argument against is that it makes murdering the victim more likely. After all, a live victim can testify, and if the punishment is the same?

What other reasons may exist? Now I think death is essentially painful, and the idea of humane execution is a goose chase wrt to eliminating pain in death. But what about the effects on society? The executioner? How does one kill without it affecting them? It may be just, but it is still violent. And sanitized executions, where one is removed from the reality, offer their own issues.

Now I am in favor of capital punishment. But there are strong reasons why public authority should choose not to exercise it

Author:  flyingaway [ Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

haven't read everything here yet

but a liberal on one of the news shows said (she w as horrified, I'm sure)

what about people who are against abortion but capital punishment is fine?

HUH?

I guess an innocent baby is the same kind of creature as an ax murderer?

geez... those liberals..

Author:  crossquad [ Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Greetings:

Without CP,Spain would be Islamic,France would be Protestant.Mary of Scots probably had a BCP on her council.When our Western territories wanted to come into the Union,they had to get hanging-judges to clean the places up,or would have prostitution houses,and Congressional horse thieves in most of them,like Nevada.

bye

Author:  deleted_user [ Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Deleted

Author:  Mrs. Timmy [ Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

What about capital punishment for jaywalking, leaving your phone ringer on during movies and Mass, and for blasting those eardrum-rupturing mega-woofers? I can easily get behind that.

Author:  Riverboat [ Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Mrs. Timmy wrote:
What about capital punishment for jaywalking, leaving your phone ringer on during movies and Mass, and for blasting those eardrum-rupturing mega-woofers?

I'll vote for that and lend a hand stuffing the ballot box.

Author:  flyingaway [ Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Anyone who thinks the death penalty is intrinsically evil is, as you said, wrong. But while the moral law of the OT is unchangeable, the ceremonial and judicial laws are not. In fact, it can be sinful to follow the ceremonial!

Now, take adultery. That carries the death penalty. But even in the middle ages this was not the norm. Sixtus V in the 16th century pushed to establish the death penalty for adultery but it didn't take.

Now, let us leave aside the issue of guilt. Lets say we have no errors in convictions.

Should rapists be executed? Child molesters? Well I think they deserve it. But one argument against is that it makes murdering the victim more likely. After all, a live victim can testify, and if the punishment is the same?

What other reasons may exist? Now I think death is essentially painful, and the idea of humane execution is a goose chase wrt to eliminating pain in death. But what about the effects on society? The executioner? How does one kill without it affecting them? It may be just, but it is still violent. And sanitized executions, where one is removed from the reality, offer their own issues.

Now I am in favor of capital punishment. But there are strong reasons why public authority should choose not to exercise it

how do you feel about gov. of CA Gavin Newsom or however u spell it. . who is against killing people on death row, has now instigated a moratorium on the DP

and yet thinks it is just fine to murder the unborn?

when the unborn are taken care of, I will start caring about people being executed after committing heinous crimes

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Look, I am actually a supporter of the death penalty. But I am sick of the puerile arguments people make here. Like the one above. One evil does not justify not caring about another evil. And the "pro life" ideology that justifies ignoring everything else save abortion (while, sadly enough, often not accomplishing anything there) is disgusting.

I don't give a hoot about Newsom, or following red herrings. If you want to actually learn, and influence others as well, you have to take the arguments on the other side seriously. And throwing out a fallacy and feigning some weird superiority complex isn't even a very effective for of intellectual masturbation.

The fact that you didn't even know what my position actually is, and ignored the substantive points addressed does not induce one to consider you seriously.

As far as Newsom... Good. California has been blocked by FEDERAL judges for years. He will save the state some money, and give impetus to his opponents (as California still supports the death penalty)

Author:  flyingaway [ Wed May 15, 2019 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital Punishment

Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
A But what about the effects on society? The executioner? How does one kill without it affecting them? It may be just, but it is still violent. And sanitized executions, where one is removed from the reality, offer their own issues.

rcise it

If I were put in charge of killing people like Ted Bundy.. all I would have to do in order to carry through w/ my duties is to think of the crimes he committed and the effects his crimes had on the victims' families

and if I do that, i would have absolutely no problem flipping the switch

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