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 Post subject: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Hello, everyone! I attend SSPX Masses on a weekly basis, after having gotten fed up with the liturgical abuses occurring at my territorial parish (which the bishop refused to resolve). It's great! Masses are beautiful and reverent, and the homilies are solidly Catholic. In this thread I invite everyone to ask me any questions you might have. If you'd like to discuss the views of the Society, or even voice objections to them, that's perfectly fine, and I hope we can have a great discussion!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:49 pm 
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May I give some gentle advice? There are a lot of people on this particular forum who may not completely agree with the SSPX but have a lot of sympathy towards it, and have a fair amount of knowledge about the Society and the various issues involved. Be careful not to think you're in the middle of a bunch of people you need to argue a lot with or lecture.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
May I give some gentle advice? There are a lot of people on this particular forum who may not completely agree with the SSPX but have a lot of sympathy towards it, and have a fair amount of knowledge about the Society and the various issues involved. Be careful not to think you're in the middle of a bunch of people you need to argue a lot with or lecture.


Arguing was certainly not what I was having in mind! I trust that this forum will be much more civilised than the Catholic Answers Forums were when I tried running this kind of thread there!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:27 pm 
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Your odds of success are indeed better here, from what I hear.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:14 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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I'll bite:

According to the society's views, does vernacular, versus populum OF satisfy the Sunday obligation? What about such an Eastern Catholic Mass?
Are canonizations infallible in declaring the saint to be saved? Are Ss. Paul VI and John Paul II in heaven?
Was Vatican II the 21st Ecumenical Council? Can it be non-Council-ated, such that there would be only 20 Ecumenical Councils?
Is there anything in the pre-V2 Roman rite which, if changed, would be pastorally advantageous?
What about Pope Pius XII's new Holy Week?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:30 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Your odds of success are indeed better here, from what I hear.


CA hasn't been oppressive to me.

But then....

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Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
According to the society's views, does vernacular, versus populum OF satisfy the Sunday obligation?


No Novus Ordo Masses (and we reject the term "Ordinary Form") fulfill the Sunday obligation because the new rite is not a "received and approved" (Council of Trent, Session VII, Canon XIII) rite of the Church, i.e. is not a Catholic rite. Canon 1248 of the Code of Canon Law tells us we must attend a Catholic rite to fulfill our Sunday obligations. It does not matter whether the Novus Ordo Mass is celebrated with hand-holding, female altar servers, and jangly guitars, or with reverence, Gregorian chant, and ad orientem worship. The manner in which it is celebrated is no longer relevant because the Society views the new rite itself as intrinsically defective.

Jack3 wrote:
What about such an Eastern Catholic Mass?


Eastern Catholic liturgies are licit, and fulfill the obligation, because those rites are organically developed rites, and therefore "received and approved" and Catholic. If there is no traditional Latin Mass to attend, it is permitted for a Latin Catholic to attend an Eastern Catholic liturgy, but if the parish is not a traditional Catholic parish, the faithful should be careful when it comes to the preaching and some things that are taught.

Jack3 wrote:
Are canonizations infallible in declaring the saint to be saved? Are Ss. Paul VI and John Paul II in heaven?


There are differing views among the ranks of the Society; some have no problem referring to John XXIII, Paul VI, and John Paul II as saints, believing that the canonization, as a dogmatic fact, is infallible, while the prudential judgment that these men led lives of heroic virtue is non-infallible. Others believe that the post-Vatican II process of canonization is not sufficient, as it rejects several centuries of organic development and refining the procedure, and therefore these canonizations are not infallible, and subject to doubt.

Jack3 wrote:
Was Vatican II the 21st Ecumenical Council?


Yes, Vatican II was a valid ecumenical council, even if it did not define any new dogmas, and some parts of the documents are ambiguous or even erroneous, and need correction. The Society, however, does not consider the "hermeneutic of continuity" to be enough, as Fr. Pagliarani stated in his first interview after being elected Superior General.

Jack3 wrote:
Can it be non-Council-ated, such that there would be only 20 Ecumenical Councils?


No, because it is logically impossible to invalidate what was already valid. Is it possible for some documents to be revoked? Yes, should the Church decide to do so in the future. There is also historical precedent for this, with Haec Sancta.

Jack3 wrote:
Is there anything in the pre-V2 Roman rite which, if changed, would be pastorally advantageous?


While the SSPX recognizes the 1962 Missal and uses it exclusively, many in the Society do agree that it is not perfect, and does need some reform. However, as a Church we are far from that stage, so this issue is rarely discussed.

Jack3 wrote:
What about Pope Pius XII's new Holy Week?


It does contain its weaknesses, such as the suppression of a preface for Palm Sunday which proclaims the kingship of Christ, it is not "contaminated", so to speak, in the same manner as the Novus Ordo Missae.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm an SSPXer, ask me anything!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Thank you for your responses.

By saying "such" an Eastern Catholic Mass, I mean vernacular verses populum Mass. You are saying that it satisfies the obligation, right?

Does an Anglican Ordinariate Mass satisfy the Sunday obligation?

Recently, permission has been given to use the pre-Pius Xii Holy Week. Do you view this as a good thing?

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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