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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:42 am 
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We could approach this from a negative position, like how not to evangelize...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f9PHrqDu7o

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:19 am 
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It's very true that, traditionally, evangelization was not a thing undertaken by laymen.

It's also true, in this day and age, that many tasks normally done by priests and religious must be taken up by laymen because the former aren't doing them.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
It's very true that, traditionally, evangelization was not a thing undertaken by laymen.

It's also true, in this day and age, that many tasks normally done by priests and religious must be taken up by laymen because the former aren't doing them.


Sure. But in many (not all) cases, that just means trying to living a holy life and hoping that that draws people in. I think that's all anyone here is claiming. I don't think anyone is claiming that laymen should never discuss their faith with those outside the faith.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:44 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
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Me as a lay Catholic, I was commanded to let my light so shine before men that they see my good works and glorify my Father in heaven. My life IS my evangelization.


what if no one knows anything about your life? I myself tend to be a private person who doesn't like to share a lot about myself (what I do on such and such day.. how I do it, etc). some people know that I got to Mass but that's about all they know. When i evangelize, I do it anonymously so they don't know about that. I am not a very sociable creature, although i do like socializing with certain like-minded people.

most people live lives that don't really "say much" to others. I mean, w hen a husband talks to his w ife (or refuses to?) and interacts w/ his children... well, yeh, sometimes people see a glimpse of that but.. it is what goes on when no one is looking that shows who you really are..

and besides, as far as the great commission and how that was addressed to the 12.. well, it doesn't look like the bishops and priests are doing a heckofa job of that either. but someone has to


Christ left us a Church, we are told to be in the world, we are to reach out to others and the first of those would be our family and then our neighbor. We live our lives of kindness and compassion and love, people see that, those people include our spouse and family, and they then glorify God.

This means it is important how we interact with everyone, from the person in the drive thru at Wendy's to the receptionist at the Dentists office to the person who calls about my late payment on the cable bill to the driver who cuts in front of me. Show kindness to everyone. People will see God in you.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:20 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
because most Catholics do not "evangelize" (or not often anyway), the world is becoming less and less Catholic.. which means more and more LAWLESS and IMMORAL


Grace is needed first and foremost for conversion, and it comes by prayer and penance. Sometimes doing this is better than trying to talk to someone who cannot comprehend or who will not listen.


Doom et al. are right; not everyone is called to evangelize, at least directly, and depending on the situation evangelization can look different.


Evangelization by living the Gospel can be done by those who are not specifically called to some kind of direct evangelization. The only issue I have is that it can turn into “Evangelization by attraction” where Catholicism is shown to be something that is entirely fulfillment based and a feel-good time, which is not always the case. Great disappoints will come to those who think converting to Catholicism means a constant stream of joy, which no dry periods, dark nights, or trials. Additionally, some people will be “content and fulfilled” with their current secular life, and demonstrating Catholicism as some kind of “I am fulfilled and I feel great” may just make them look at Catholicism as an optional lifestyle that’s good for some, but not everyone.


IMO, evangelizing by living the Gospel (where one is not suited to preach or teach) should have some component against the above and also show the other party not only the good and holy that comes from living your faith, but the necessity of Catholicism and the sacraments.


In certain instances, a good debate is actually helpful in evangelization. Although most people probably cannot do this either, and it is usually demonized by those who think all debate is alienating.


Other times, just talking with people over certain issues and beliefs is also effective. This is usually called “dialogue” – a vague term. Again, some are not suited to do this either.

Sometimes people who are not good at evangelization throw books at the other person, this may be helpful if the other party is committed. Articles, videos, and audio programs may be helpful. Some people will listen to them, others want to hear from you.

Do your best, and if there is something you cannot answer, just admit that you are unable and that you may have to get back with the person later. Sometimes people barrage you with many arguments – just take it one at a time and if there is something you cannot answer, that is okay.

But again, I feel that whatever method is taken, the non-Catholic party should have a sense that we as Catholics consider Catholicism, Her sacraments, and Her truths, as necessary for salvation.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
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Jesus said to preach the gospel to every creature

Are Catholics exempt from that? you'd think that that is what they think (some)

One of the patron saints of missions is St Therese of Liseux. How did she evangelize?

practicing the faith (forgiving, etc) is evangelizing

and obviously, people in prison cannot evangelize as well as those who are not and etc... We have to work within our own little sphere of influence but if you never tell anyone about Jesus / his church.. well.

Jesus DID say

If you deny Me before men, I will deny you before the Father


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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:42 am 
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More quoting like a "protestant," eh?

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:19 am 
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Alexandros wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
because most Catholics do not "evangelize" (or not often anyway), the world is becoming less and less Catholic.. which means more and more LAWLESS and IMMORAL


Grace is needed first and foremost for conversion, and it comes by prayer and penance. Sometimes doing this is better than trying to talk to someone who cannot comprehend or who will not listen.


Doom et al. are right; not everyone is called to evangelize, at least directly, and depending on the situation evangelization can look different.


Evangelization by living the Gospel can be done by those who are not specifically called to some kind of direct evangelization. The only issue I have is that it can turn into “Evangelization by attraction” where Catholicism is shown to be something that is entirely fulfillment based and a feel-good time, which is not always the case. Great disappoints will come to those who think converting to Catholicism means a constant stream of joy, which no dry periods, dark nights, or trials. Additionally, some people will be “content and fulfilled” with their current secular life, and demonstrating Catholicism as some kind of “I am fulfilled and I feel great” may just make them look at Catholicism as an optional lifestyle that’s good for some, but not everyone.


IMO, evangelizing by living the Gospel (where one is not suited to preach or teach) should have some component against the above and also show the other party not only the good and holy that comes from living your faith, but the necessity of Catholicism and the sacraments.


In certain instances, a good debate is actually helpful in evangelization. Although most people probably cannot do this either, and it is usually demonized by those who think all debate is alienating.


Other times, just talking with people over certain issues and beliefs is also effective. This is usually called “dialogue” – a vague term. Again, some are not suited to do this either.

Sometimes people who are not good at evangelization throw books at the other person, this may be helpful if the other party is committed. Articles, videos, and audio programs may be helpful. Some people will listen to them, others want to hear from you.

Do your best, and if there is something you cannot answer, just admit that you are unable and that you may have to get back with the person later. Sometimes people barrage you with many arguments – just take it one at a time and if there is something you cannot answer, that is okay.

But again, I feel that whatever method is taken, the non-Catholic party should have a sense that we as Catholics consider Catholicism, Her sacraments, and Her truths, as necessary for salvation.


I can generally agree with your points here, but (a) if discussing your faith with non-believers is a near occasion of sin for you (either because it can easily lead to excessive anger or because it could lead to you denying the faith), you ought not to do it, and (b) one should only debate people or discuss with people who seem open to what you have to say (or to defend the truth publicly if you're in a public setting).

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:18 am 
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salvation.
Quote:

I can generally agree with your points here, but (a) if discussing your faith with non-believers is a near occasion of sin for you (either because it can easily lead to excessive anger or because it could lead to you denying the faith), you ought not to do it, and (b) one should only debate people or discuss with people who seem open to what you have to say (or to defend the truth publicly if you're in a public setting).


but we don't always know if someone might be open to what we are saying. Yes, 10 minutes of "You Catholics are all going to Hell" and etc.. is a good indication you may not be talking to the right person.. but sometimes people resist and resist but then just one thing u say makes them stop and think... and who knows where that train of thought will lead them.. maybe into the Church?

also, as to previous poster's comment that it begins with grace (evangelism)

If we are not in grave sin, one Mass imparts sufficient grace, it would seem, to enable us to evangelize well


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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:12 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
but if you never tell anyone about Jesus / his church.. well.

Jesus DID say

If you deny Me before men, I will deny you before the Father


I may never tell anyone how I met my friend.

This does not mean I deny meeting my friend.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:16 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
If we are not in grave sin, one Mass imparts sufficient grace, it would seem, to enable us to evangelize well


If by "evangelize", you mean live a holy life and prudently determine when to be explicit with non-believers about or faith, then I agree.

If not, then I don't agree. Mass gives us all the graces we need (and more) to live fruitfully in a state of grace. But the ability to evangelize is a charism as evidenced by the passages from St. Paul that both Doom and I quoted already, and the charismatic graces come when God wants them to come and they are not necessarily signs of interior sanctity. So, I disagree pretty strongly if you are using evangelization in the more strict sense.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:19 pm 
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ThomisticCajunAggie wrote:
I can generally agree with your points here, but (a) if discussing your faith with non-believers is a near occasion of sin for you (either because it can easily lead to excessive anger or because it could lead to you denying the faith), you ought not to do it, and (b) one should only debate people or discuss with people who seem open to what you have to say (or to defend the truth publicly if you're in a public setting).


Agreed. That is essentially what I was thinking, I just didn't name all the scenarios where people shouldn't engage.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:23 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
also, as to previous poster's comment that it begins with grace (evangelism)

If we are not in grave sin, one Mass imparts sufficient grace, it would seem, to enable us to evangelize well



That's a good point that the one evangelizing needs grace. In my post, I was talking about the other party needing the grace. Everyone needs grace for conversion, but some people's hearts are so hardened that prayer and penance are desperately needed. It could be even more effective than hours of talking, dialogue, debate, or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
It's very true that, traditionally, evangelization was not a thing undertaken by laymen.

It's also true, in this day and age, that many tasks normally done by priests and religious must be taken up by laymen because the former aren't doing them.

laugh

understatement: they "aren't doing them"

priests nowadays seem to want to just enjoy life

well, don't we all

that is human, to want to enjoy life. But i always thought we were supposed 2 pick up a cross and carry it or something....


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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:52 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
but if you never tell anyone about Jesus / his church.. well.

Jesus DID say

If you deny Me before men, I will deny you before the Father


I may never tell anyone how I met my friend.

This does not mean I deny meeting my friend.

[I don't know the Poster of the above post isn't named here...made some mistake but anyhow..]

we are not talking about a mere friend

we are talking about the Only Way to Salvation

it's kind of like that psg in the Bible: If you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven

If you do not tell others about Jesus, maybe you won't have Jesus either.........

(I don't know... lots of stuff I don't know, but it's a thought. In any case, Jesus is the judge, or rather His Words are.. so I am not going to be definite )


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 Post subject: Re: How do you evangelize (which you have to do to get 2 Hea
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:31 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
we are not talking about a mere friend

we are talking about the Only Way to Salvation

it's kind of like that psg in the Bible: If you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven

If you do not tell others about Jesus, maybe you won't have Jesus either.........

(I don't know... lots of stuff I don't know, but it's a thought. In any case, Jesus is the judge, or rather His Words are.. so I am not going to be definite )


Contemplative nuns.

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