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 Post subject: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:22 pm 
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I am having a crisis of faith, not in Christ, but in the Catholic Church.

For the last few years whenever I would read something questionable Pope Francis said or did, I was told by seasoned Catholics to stop reading the news, especially from non-Catholic sources. They purposely confuse or distort his message and intentions. I took the advice and stopped. But now respected Catholic news sources and commentators are sounding the alarms about very grave matters.

We have a Pope committed to promoting and protecting practicing gay bishops and priests, and demoting, silencing, and name-calling orthodox bishops when they point out what he is doing.

The recent YouTube series by Taylor Marshal distills it all pretty clearly. I happen to think this episode is particularly strong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8WMHtZXgMw&t=624s

As a convert to Catholicism, I placed my deepest confidence in the claims that this church was established by Christ himself, and it is uniquely the one which the gates of hell will not prevail against.

But the Catholic Church is going the same way as the Episcopal church, which I grew up attending, and the United Methodist church which I left as a mature adult to become Catholic. Like those mainline Churches, the Catholic Church is fast becoming yet another champion for sexual perversion.

I will continue attending confession at least once a month, pray the rosary for the pope, bishops, and priests, and wage war within myself for holiness. Inside though I feel great pain and anger. Yesterday it occurred to me that my anguish could be my own fault. Maybe I was a naïve fool for putting my trust in the Catholic Church.

Instead of being the Bride of Christ and the Pillar of Truth, the Catholic Church may actually be run by Satan, and Pope Francis is his man.

There’s even a worse possibility than this, but I don’t have the heart to write it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Somehow, I knew you were going to cite Taylor Marshall. I'm not going to say that you shouldn't be worried about the problems in the Church, but I am going to say that you should stop reading Taylor Marshall. Or at least stop reading anything he says about the Pope and the current problems in the Church. The man is a conspiratorial nutjob, the latter-day Malachi Martin. Nothing good can possibly come from reading him.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:54 pm 
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You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Have you thought of writing Dr. Marshall and asking him that question? He's probably had to ask it of himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.


What was the best response for a layman under John XXII

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.

To be a practicing Catholic do you not have to be "under the authority of the Pope"?


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Somehow, I knew you were going to cite Taylor Marshall. I'm not going to say that you shouldn't be worried about the problems in the Church, but I am going to say that you should stop reading Taylor Marshall. Or at least stop reading anything he says about the Pope and the current problems in the Church. The man is a conspiratorial nutjob, the latter-day Malachi Martin. Nothing good can possibly come from reading him.


As Taylor Marshall stated, the real issue is whether the claims are true.

Do you similarly reject Archbishop Vigano as a nut-job?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/msgr-pop ... ird-letter


Last edited by Xavier on Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.

To be a practicing Catholic do you not have to be "under the authority of the Pope"?


When the Pope wears rainbow crosses and arm bands at international Catholic events, should we not all follow suit during Holy Mass as a sign of solidarity with LGBT?


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Xavier wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.

To be a practicing Catholic do you not have to be "under the authority of the Pope"?


When the Pope wears rainbow crosses and arm bands at international Catholic events, should we not all follow suit during Holy Mass as a sign of solidarity with LGBT?

It's abundantly clear that the Pope does not support gay marriage.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Taylor Marshal summarizes what Catholic clergy have said: Pope Francis is promoting and protecting gay clergy and those supportive of the lifestyle. Pope Francis also openly attacks and demotes those who challenge him in this area.

There is the highly detailed testimony of Archbishop Vigano. There is also the testimony of Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Bishop Marian Eleganti, and Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Then there is Father James Martin, whom I know people on this forum have called a heretic. Well, Pope Francis promoted this gay activist to a leadership position within Vatican Communications. By itself this says a lot about the Pope's priorities. But Fr Martin himself has also said Pope Francis appoints bishops and cardinals who support the homosexual agenda.

Well, like I said, this is all very hard on me. I get the feeling not many people here are particularly bothered by the situation. That's very disappointing, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:58 pm 
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I am bothered. I have also found that it's simply not helpful for me to devote time and energy to following it.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Xavier wrote:


As Taylor Marshall stated, the real issue is whether the claims are true.

Do you similarly reject Archbishop Vigano as a nut-job?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/msgr-pop ... ird-letter


Now you are changing the topic. Do you agree with Taylor Marshall that the reason why Pope Benedict resigned is that he was the victim of a conspiracy by the Freemasons to blackmail him? That is what Taylor Marshall thinks!

Do you agree with him that Benedict's old age had absolutely nothing to do with his resignation because he is still in perfectly good health and could easily fulfill all the duties of the Papacy even today? That is what he claimed in his correspondence with me.

This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. He has a tendency to try to explain everything by resorting to an elaborate conspiracy theory, usually involving the Freemasons. Don't you think that is a rather huge problem as far as his credibility is concerned?

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Last edited by Doom on Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You put your trust in the Church, not in the Pope. We have had bad popes before, foolish popes before, rash and imprudent popes before, and popes with all those negative attributes and more, in various combinations.

To be a practicing Catholic do you not have to be "under the authority of the Pope"?

Yes and no. Are you familiar with the case of Pope John XXII, mentioned above?

When Vatican I defined infallibility, they defined it very carefully, because there are some incidents in Church history that would make the doctrine false if construed too broadly (e.g., John XII, Honorius). And it doesn't cover prudence and government at all.

We are bound to believe the pope when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals; he is the supreme legislator of the Church; and we should give deferential consideration to things he proposes even in a non-infallible way; but he is not a micro-managing controller.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Xavier wrote:
Taylor Marshal summarizes what Catholic clergy have said: Pope Francis is promoting and protecting gay clergy and those supportive of the lifestyle. Pope Francis also openly attacks and demotes those who challenge him in this area.

There is the highly detailed testimony of Archbishop Vigano. There is also the testimony of Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Bishop Marian Eleganti, and Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Then there is Father James Martin, whom I know people on this forum have called a heretic. Well, Pope Francis promoted this gay activist to a leadership position within Vatican Communications. By itself this says a lot about the Pope's priorities. But Fr Martin himself has also said Pope Francis appoints bishops and cardinals who support the homosexual agenda.

Well, like I said, this is all very hard on me. I get the feeling not many people here are particularly bothered by the situation. That's very disappointing, too.

Pope Francis is promoting clergy some of whom may be gay or friendly towards LGBT people. It would be WRONG for Pope Francis to discriminate against gay people or be hostile towards gay people who are human beings who do not choose their sexual orientation every bit as much as you and I are human beings who do not choose our sexual orientation.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Xavier wrote:
Taylor Marshal summarizes what Catholic clergy have said: Pope Francis is promoting and protecting gay clergy and those supportive of the lifestyle. Pope Francis also openly attacks and demotes those who challenge him in this area.

There is the highly detailed testimony of Archbishop Vigano. There is also the testimony of Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Bishop Marian Eleganti, and Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Then there is Father James Martin, whom I know people on this forum have called a heretic. Well, Pope Francis promoted this gay activist to a leadership position within Vatican Communications. By itself this says a lot about the Pope's priorities. But Fr Martin himself has also said Pope Francis appoints bishops and cardinals who support the homosexual agenda.

Well, like I said, this is all very hard on me. I get the feeling not many people here are particularly bothered by the situation. That's very disappointing, too.

Pope Francis is promoting clergy some of whom may be gay or friendly towards LGBT people. It would be WRONG for Pope Francis to discriminate against gay people or be hostile towards gay people who are human beings who do not choose their sexual orientation every bit as much as you and I are human beings who do not choose our sexual orientation.


I don't think you understand. From what I read by the people above, Pope Francis advocates for gay sex among priests and bishops. Yes, men of the cloth engaging in sexually perverse acts with each other.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:59 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Xavier wrote:


As Taylor Marshall stated, the real issue is whether the claims are true.

Do you similarly reject Archbishop Vigano as a nut-job?

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/msgr-pop ... ird-letter


Now you are changing the topic. Do you agree with Taylor Marshall that the reason why Pope Benedict resigned is that he was the victim of a conspiracy by the Freemasons to blackmail him? That is what Taylor Marshall thinks!

Do you agree with him that Benedict's old age had absolutely nothing to do with his resignation because he is still in perfectly good health and could easily fulfill all the duties of the Papacy even today? That is what he claimed in his correspondence with me.

This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. He has a tendency to try to explain everything by resorting to an elaborate conspiracy theory, usually involving the Freemasons. Don't you think that is a rather huge problem as far as his credibility is concerned?[/quo

I was drawing attention to the practicing gay priests and bishops, and how Pope Francis by many accounts supports it. My opening post was very clear this was my focus.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Can we try to avoid making this conversation specifically about LGBT issues and rather look at the broader question please?

Zeno
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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:51 pm 
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This will be final post on Catholic-Convert.

I joined the Catholic church about ten years ago, and my wife also converted. Later my parents also joined after being lifelong Episcopalians.

It was a happy time for a number of years, but I now regret the influence I had over them all. I am ashamed I brought them into the Catholic Church. I have struggles with sin and many character flaws. But the level of depravity within the church hierarchy is beyond belief. Truly, the earth itself calls out to heaven for justice.

I hope you will take the time to learn about Our Lady of Akita, a series of apparitions and messages along with public miracles personally witnessed and approved by the local bishop. The messages of Our Lady may bring clarity to understanding the state of the church today, and what likely awaits us. There are many videos on YouTube as well as articles explaining it all.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/joseph-p ... ays-crisis

I pray for the priests and bishops as Our Lady directs, but I have dwindling hope for conversion from sexual sin, which plagues everyone: churchmen,religious, the laity and the unbelieving world.

So instead I often meditate on the warning of Akita, and even pray for it to come soon.

May fire from heaven fall upon us all, because we have poisoned the earth.

Goodbye


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Xavier wrote:
Taylor Marshal summarizes what Catholic clergy have said: Pope Francis is promoting and protecting gay clergy and those supportive of the lifestyle. Pope Francis also openly attacks and demotes those who challenge him in this area.

There is the highly detailed testimony of Archbishop Vigano. There is also the testimony of Cardinal Gerhard Müller, Bishop Marian Eleganti, and Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

Then there is Father James Martin, whom I know people on this forum have called a heretic. Well, Pope Francis promoted this gay activist to a leadership position within Vatican Communications. By itself this says a lot about the Pope's priorities. But Fr Martin himself has also said Pope Francis appoints bishops and cardinals who support the homosexual agenda.

Well, like I said, this is all very hard on me. I get the feeling not many people here are particularly bothered by the situation. That's very disappointing, too.

Pope Francis is promoting clergy some of whom may be gay or friendly towards LGBT people. It would be WRONG for Pope Francis to discriminate against gay people or be hostile towards gay people who are human beings who do not choose their sexual orientation every bit as much as you and I are human beings who do not choose our sexual orientation.



This is another incredibly strange response.
It's almost as if you're saying the sinner and the sin are a 1 package deal.

You really need to clarify your terms. What is being 'hostile' ? Disagreeing with their sinful actions?
Am I being hostile in saying their actions are sinful?

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:40 am 
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Zeno wrote:
Can we try to avoid making this conversation specifically about LGBT issues and rather look at the broader question please?

Zeno
DCF Team

What is the broader question?


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