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 Post subject: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Master
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Quote:
Our birth would have been no gain,
had we not been redeemed.

Easter Proclamation.

1. Is life on earth considered in itself apart from any hope of grace, just meaningless vanities and sorrow?

2. Is there no good in being born if we did not have the assurance of sufficient grace?

3. St. Alphonse says that we can not make up for a single venial sin with a life of good works. Life inevitable involves some venial even if not deliberate sins, notes St. Bernard.

Does grace provide the answer to this? Is grace the source of the goodness of life?

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Master
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Am I just really off base here?

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:00 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Sine tuo numine,
nihil est in homine,
nihil est innoxium.

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Prayers,
Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:07 am 
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Master
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Jack3 wrote:
Sine tuo numine,
nihil est in homine,
nihil est innoxium.


In the EF a few week ago the collect was something like "Without your grace it is impossible to please you"

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:01 am 
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Jedi Master
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Existence itself is a good.

Beyond that, remember that there was a state of pure natural happiness before the Fall, which would also be the state of those in Limbo, should Limbo exist.

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Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:22 am 
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Master
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Existence itself is a good.


I suppose the Proclamation is only for adults.

Existence can become a relative evil as St Thomas notes, so it might better for some if they were never born.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:40 am 
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Master
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Let's put it this way:

The post-lapsarian life of the rational creature who has moral agency is meaningless without grace, since (as St. Bernard notes) he can not go on without some sin, and (as St. Alphonse notes) nothing he could possibly do will make up for a single venial sin.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:18 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Existence itself is a good.


I suppose the Proclamation is only for adults.

Existence can become a relative evil as St Thomas notes, so it might better for some if they were never born.

The Proclamation does contain the words happy fault, so it's only for adults in a certain sense.
That saying of Jesus is sometimes interpreted as a reference to limbo.

_________________
Prayers,
Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Grace and the Meaning of Life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:27 am 
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Master
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Location: Canada
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Jack3 wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Existence itself is a good.


I suppose the Proclamation is only for adults.

Existence can become a relative evil as St Thomas notes, so it might better for some if they were never born.

The Proclamation does contain the words happy fault, so it's only for adults in a certain sense.
That saying of Jesus is sometimes interpreted as a reference to limbo.


St. Thomas holds it as refering to existence.

Obj 3 Further, what is the more universal is prior in idea. But goodness seems to be more universal than being, since goodness has the aspect of desirable; whereas to some non-existence is desirable; for it is said of Judas: "It were better for him, if that man had not been born" (Matthew 26:24). Therefore in idea goodness is prior to being.

Reply to Objection 3. Non-being is desirable, not of itself, but only relatively—i.e. inasmuch as the removal of an evil, which can only be removed by non-being, is desirable. Now the removal of an evil cannot be desirable, except so far as this evil deprives a thing of some being. Therefore being is desirable of itself; and non-being only relatively, inasmuch as one seeks some mode of being of which one cannot bear to be deprived; thus even non-being can be spoken of as relatively good.

ST Prima Pars, q. 5 a. 2

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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