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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:45 pm 
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While I'm familiar with Ralph Martin's story, I haven't actually read any of his books. Anything to recommend?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:09 pm 
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GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
Sometimes, I actually do get around to reading some of those books that I've had for years but never read. Last year, I finally read David McCullough's 'Truman', a book I first book when it was originally published in 1993. I think that's my record for length of time between buying a book and actually reading it.


My record would be somewhat longer.


Well, you are just a little bit older than me, but I'm catching up to you

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
Sometimes, I actually do get around to reading some of those books that I've had for years but never read. Last year, I finally read David McCullough's 'Truman', a book I first book when it was originally published in 1993. I think that's my record for length of time between buying a book and actually reading it.


My record would be somewhat longer.


Well, you are just a little bit older than me, but I'm catching up to you


That's a neat trick.

Of course, I can recall when I was 3 times my daughter's age, but am not even twice it, now.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:35 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Givi46 wrote:
Why is he so popular? It seems like I turned around for 5 minutes and suddenly everyone is about him. (Both here and even possibly at the Mount too :shock: )

There's much better questionable (to put it charitably) literature if that's what you're into.

He wasn't a big deal when I was at the Mount--in fact, one teacher was openly dismissive of him. But the systematics faculty has turned over completely since I was there (in fact, I think there are only a handful of faculty members at all left from my time), so I don't know what things are like now.

ETA: The seminary website lists 7 teachers I had as still active; two are adjunct faculty (priests with parish assignments who come in to handle a course or two).


That makes sense. From what I've seen some of the phenomenon comes from faculty on the University side who have some crossover with the seminary being big fans of the late author.

Doesn't make it any less infuriating however, though I'm also pretty sure Bishop Barron might be related to this whole thing as well.


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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.

In what way was St. John Paul II vetoed by a higher power?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:28 pm 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.

In what way was St. John Paul II vetoed by a higher power?

That von Balthasar died before the consistory at which he would have been made a member of the College.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.

In what way was St. John Paul II vetoed by a higher power?

That von Balthasar died before the consistory at which he would have been made a member of the College.

So you're saying that God vetoed St. John Paul II through Von Balthasar's death?

That's exactly what I'm saying we shouldn't say. Whether it anything to do with him becoming a cardinal or not is not for us to know.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Why is that? Are you familiar with the story surrounding Pope Sixtus V's proposed changes to the Vulgate?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Why is that? Are you familiar with the story surrounding Pope Sixtus V's proposed changes to the Vulgate?


Maybe that's the origin of the fable about the Pope who tried to resolve the Molinist-Thomist issue . . .

I'm just trying to apply the example of St. Phillip Neri (I posted it above) who refused to let a penitent even suggest that a particular opponent of his was struck down in punishment.

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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.

In what way was St. John Paul II vetoed by a higher power?

That von Balthasar died before the consistory at which he would have been made a member of the College.



And somehow God was not part of that decision making process? Come on man, you're splitting hairs, you were clearly suggesting that Von Balthazar's death before being made Cardinal was some kind of expressing divine disfavor.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Why is that? Are you familiar with the story surrounding Pope Sixtus V's proposed changes to the Vulgate?


Not merely 'proposed changes' but actual changes, as the Sixtine Vulgate really was published, and remained the definitive text for nearly 5 years before the errors were corrected. Are you suggesting that Sixtus' early death was some kind of sign of divine disfavor for his sloppy editing? His text was flawed, but that was because he rushed through it, and he rushed through it because he was severely ill and he knew he didn't have much time left to live.

Because, you know, truthfully, if not for the Sixtine Vulgate, there probably never would have been a Clementine Vulgate. The Council of Trent had decreed that a new, corrected edition of the Vulgate be made, and here it was, nearly 40 years after that decree had been made, and not only was the new edition not finished, but no work on it had even been begun. For decades, the Council's decree was completely ignored. So, frustrated by the fact that Council's decree had been ignored, Pope Sixtus decided to do it himself. His work was sloppy and later corrected, but if he hadn't taken the initiative, the project likely never would have been done at all, and we'd probably all be complaining today 'so where is that new edition of the Vulgate that was decreed 500 years ago that no one has bothered to do anything with?' And in fact, Sixtus V was one of the most productive reformist popes in history, he is the classic example that proves that a Pope doesn't have to have a long reign to make a huge impact, and the fact that he was seriously ill during almost his entire papacy just makes his accomplishments all the more impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:14 pm 
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The Bull making it official was never promulgated.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:37 am 
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Doom wrote:
And somehow God was not part of that decision making process? Come on man, you're splitting hairs, you were clearly suggesting that Von Balthazar's death before being made Cardinal was some kind of expressing divine disfavor.

What decision-making process are you referring to?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:26 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
And somehow God was not part of that decision making process? Come on man, you're splitting hairs, you were clearly suggesting that Von Balthazar's death before being made Cardinal was some kind of expressing divine disfavor.

What decision-making process are you referring to?

The one you said was vetoed

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Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:28 am 
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I'm lost, sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Let me try this. That von Balthasar would be named a Cardinal, and that he would die before the appointment could be made official, are both part of God's will. God willed that he would be named a Cardinal and willed that he would die before the Consistory.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:52 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar

That's not what I suggested.



You do have to admit that "God Killed Von Balthazar" would be a cool band name :fyi:

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