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 Post subject: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:21 am 
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Why is he so popular? It seems like I turned around for 5 minutes and suddenly everyone is about him. (Both here and even possibly at the Mount too :shock: )

There's much better questionable (to put it charitably) literature if that's what you're into.


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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:25 am 
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Could be worse. Could be Schillebeeckx.

vB's been very popular with the "conservatives" in the Church for awhile now (as opposed to the "traditionalists). One way to think of it is: for a long time a faithful Catholic could more or less get away with writing a dissertation on vB. But try writing one on, say, Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange. There's a kind of funneling effect in academia. So your professors who wanted to be faithful kind of had to go in one direction rather than another.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:50 am 
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I lean pretty strongly towards the anti-Balthazar camp myself.

But he was going to be made a Cardinal by St JP II and the study of his works was encouraged by B XVI. That's not to mention prominent New Evangelist Bishop Baron prompts "Dare We Hope?" and through the help of Brandon Vogt has become an Internet sensation.

So for a lot if conservatives, he has all the right people prompting him.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:10 am 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
But he was going to be made a Cardinal by St JP II

Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:19 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
But he was going to be made a Cardinal by St JP II

Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

That's not for us to know


It was necessary, however, for Philip to give an account to his superiors of the things objected to him. This he did without the help of worldly means, and only by his innocence and by prayer. He was continually saying to his followers, “This persecution is not for you, but for me, God wishing to make me humble and patient; and be sure, that when I shall have gained from it the fruit which God intends, and shall be thoroughly mortified, the persecution will cease.” He would not allow one word to be spoken against that prelate; nay, one of his penitents going one day to confession, and alluding to the judgment of God in that sudden death, the Saint instantly took the words out of his mouth, and said, “Hold your peace.”

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:52 pm 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
But he was going to be made a Cardinal by JP II


Yeah, and that was after he gave JPII a book on Tarot cards that he wrote the afterward to.
He also received the Pope Paul VI theological award (a fitting name) from the Vatican (not sure who did this exactly).


Quote:
So for a lot if conservatives, he has all the right people prompting him.


It depends on what you mean by "conservative." The word is not necessarily an accurate term for any Catholic really.

The “conservative” crowd is sometimes unaware of the bizarreness of Balthasar, and they read him because the so-called “conservative” Popes admire him and Ignatius press publishes his works (extremely disappointing to discover this years ago).

I had a few grad school classes taught by an older priest who was taught by Balthasar (and Ratzinger ) himself. He made us read plenty of Balthasar… not surprisingly.

There were a few other fellows in the class; a priest from Steubenville and another gentleman. After class I warned them about Balthasar with specific reference to his errors: Christ not knowing who He was until a later point in time, Christ suffering the pains of the hell of the damned, and of course the hope that hell can be empty. They were surprised saying, “I thought he was a good theologian who several Popes admired.”

Well, of course they would admire him, because not all is quiet right with the Church currently, to put it charitably.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Alexandros wrote:
Ignatius press publishes his works

They also publish stuff from his friend Adrienne von Speyr, the "visionary" on whom von B. based a lot of his thought.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:19 pm 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

That's not for us to know

How do you mean?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Ignatius press publishes his works

They also publish stuff from his friend Adrienne von Speyr, the "visionary" on whom von B. based a lot of his thought.


Just for the lurkers, and anyone else who is not aware. Read all about von Speyer here:

https://www.renewalministries.net/files ... 73_301.pdf

Note: I don't much about Renewal Ministries - where the document came from - but the information is helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

That's not for us to know

How do you mean?


I think his meaning is apparent

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Renewal Ministries is Ralph Martin et al.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

That's not for us to know

How do you mean?


I think his meaning is apparent


Well, I'm still in the dark.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Doom wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Which, one might say, was vetoed by a higher authority.

That's not for us to know

How do you mean?


I think his meaning is apparent


Well, I'm still in the dark.


I'm at a loss to understand why you're confused.

You suggested that God killed Von Balthazar to prevent him from becoming a cardinal and you got the response that we don't have the right to claim to have knowledge of the reason why God allowed Von Balthazar to die at the time he did, we can't claim to know God's will, but you don't know what he meant by that? As I said, I thought his meaning was apparent.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:57 pm 
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I agree with Doom (well its really just that he rightly understood what I said)

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:15 am 
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Ralph Martin does a good job of dismantling vB in Will Many Be Saved?

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:30 am 
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Givi46 wrote:
Why is he so popular? It seems like I turned around for 5 minutes and suddenly everyone is about him. (Both here and even possibly at the Mount too :shock: )

There's much better questionable (to put it charitably) literature if that's what you're into.

He wasn't a big deal when I was at the Mount--in fact, one teacher was openly dismissive of him. But the systematics faculty has turned over completely since I was there (in fact, I think there are only a handful of faculty members at all left from my time), so I don't know what things are like now.

ETA: The seminary website lists 7 teachers I had as still active; two are adjunct faculty (priests with parish assignments who come in to handle a course or two).

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:38 am 
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HalJordan wrote:
Ralph Martin does a good job of dismantling vB in Will Many Be Saved?


I bought that book in 2013 and still haven't read it.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:56 am 
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Doom wrote:
HalJordan wrote:
Ralph Martin does a good job of dismantling vB in Will Many Be Saved?


I bought that book in 2013 and still haven't read it.


We be of one blood, ye and I.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Sometimes, I actually do get around to reading some of those books that I've had for years but never read. Last year, I finally read David McCullough's 'Truman', a book I first bought when it was originally published in 1993. I think that's my record for length of time between buying a book and actually reading it.

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Last edited by Doom on Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: von Balthasar, eeeeverywhere
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Sometimes, I actually do get around to reading some of those books that I've had for years but never read. Last year, I finally read David McCullough's 'Truman', a book I first book when it was originally published in 1993. I think that's my record for lenght of time between buying a book and actually reading it.


My record would be somewhat longer.

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