Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3   [ 47 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:37 am
Posts: 850
Location: NYC
Religion: Catholic
Patrick J. Buchanan weighs in with a piece - A Cancer On the Papacy - that mentions Archbishop Viganò's charges.

Here is an excerpt (boldface mine):
Quote:
Undeniably, Francis, and the progressive bishops who urge a new tolerance, a new understanding, a new appreciation of the benign character of homosexuality, have won the plaudits of a secular press that loathed the Church of Pius XII.

Of what value are all those wonderful press clippings now, as the chickens come home to roost in Vatican City?

Which leads me to this weekend's Financial Times devoting about 3/4 of page 5 to Catholic civil war in a lopsidedly, to me, anyway, pro-Pope Francis article. Sorry, but that article is behind a paywall.

_________________
"Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:48 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:36 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Planet California
Religion: Catholic
It is most definitely war. Either Francis, his fake priests, and pedo mafia need to go willingly, or they need to be forcibly removed. They cannot stay. There is literally no other way for the Church to move forward unless these frauds are expunged.

_________________
Image

"Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side...and the truth." ~ Vorlon proverb, Babylon 5

"Life has to be more than just a pulse beat. What we hold sacred gives our lives meaning." ~ Commander Jeffery Sinclair, Babylon 5


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:54 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75509
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Wolfguard wrote:
It is most definitely war. Either Francis, his fake priests, and pedo mafia need to go willingly, or they need to be forcibly removed. They cannot stay. There is literally no other way for the Church to move forward unless these frauds are expunged.


It is not possible to 'forcibly remove' a Pope, except, I suppose, by assassination, and I hope that is not what you are suggesting.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:11 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm
Posts: 78
Religion: Looking for answers
This is all very peculiar and confusing. Whose version of Catholicism should I try to follow if not the Pope's?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:05 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 7681
Location: India
Religion: Syro Malabar Christian
Denise Dee wrote:
This is all very peculiar and confusing. Whose version of Catholicism should I try to follow if not the Pope's?

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

_________________
Prayers,
Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:19 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 31360
Location: San Antonio
Religion: Catholic
Denise Dee wrote:
This is all very peculiar and confusing. Whose version of Catholicism should I try to follow if not the Pope's?

"The Catechism serves several important functions:

It conveys the essential and fundamental content of Catholic faith and morals in a complete and summary way.
It is a point of reference for national and diocesan catechisms.
It is a positive, objective and declarative exposition of Catholic doctrine.
It is intended to assist those who have the duty to catechize, namely promoters and teachers of catechesis."
- http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachi ... church.cfm

_________________
Formerly LiveByFaithNotSight
1HCaAC = One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
"Art, like morality, consists of drawing the line somewhere." - G. K. Chesterton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:48 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm
Posts: 78
Religion: Looking for answers
1HCaAC wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
This is all very peculiar and confusing. Whose version of Catholicism should I try to follow if not the Pope's?

"The Catechism serves several important functions:

It conveys the essential and fundamental content of Catholic faith and morals in a complete and summary way.
It is a point of reference for national and diocesan catechisms.
It is a positive, objective and declarative exposition of Catholic doctrine.
It is intended to assist those who have the duty to catechize, namely promoters and teachers of catechesis."
- http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachi ... church.cfm



Okay, but there are different catechisms. When I asked if the Church allows a child to be baptized even if only one parent consents, I got two opposite answers from two different catechisms. Isn't every new catechism produced under the guidance of the Pope? What happens if Pope Francis oversees a new catechism? Whose version of the Catholic catechism should I try to follow if not the current Pope's version?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:36 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 31360
Location: San Antonio
Religion: Catholic
Denise Dee wrote:
1HCaAC wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
This is all very peculiar and confusing. Whose version of Catholicism should I try to follow if not the Pope's?

"The Catechism serves several important functions:

It conveys the essential and fundamental content of Catholic faith and morals in a complete and summary way.
It is a point of reference for national and diocesan catechisms.
It is a positive, objective and declarative exposition of Catholic doctrine.
It is intended to assist those who have the duty to catechize, namely promoters and teachers of catechesis."
- http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachi ... church.cfm



Okay, but there are different catechisms. When I asked if the Church allows a child to be baptized even if only one parent consents, I got two opposite answers from two different catechisms. Isn't every new catechism produced under the guidance of the Pope? What happens if Pope Francis oversees a new catechism? Whose version of the Catholic catechism should I try to follow if not the current Pope's version?

I believe the current one is available on the Vatican website.

_________________
Formerly LiveByFaithNotSight
1HCaAC = One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
"Art, like morality, consists of drawing the line somewhere." - G. K. Chesterton


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:48 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78199
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Quote:
When I asked if the Church allows a child to be baptized even if only one parent consents, I got two opposite answers from two different catechisms.
That's because this is a case where Church practice has changed. It's not a matter of something to be believed or not believed.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:53 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:36 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Planet California
Religion: Catholic
Doom wrote:
Wolfguard wrote:
It is most definitely war. Either Francis, his fake priests, and pedo mafia need to go willingly, or they need to be forcibly removed. They cannot stay. There is literally no other way for the Church to move forward unless these frauds are expunged.


It is not possible to 'forcibly remove' a Pope, except, I suppose, by assassination, and I hope that is not what you are suggesting.

If that was what I was saying, you would not have to ask for clarification.

There are other ways, obviously. Such a person CANNOT lead the Church, nor should these fake priests be allowed to remain. Either priests and Catholics who are true to Christ's teachings need to pressure these individuals out, OR they must secede from them. That's it. You're either OK with terrible people leading or your not. You're either OK with what they are doing or you're not. There absolutely cannot be a middle ground here, otherwise the Church not only loses even MORE credibility, but also continues to enable these acts of evil.

_________________
Image

"Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side...and the truth." ~ Vorlon proverb, Babylon 5

"Life has to be more than just a pulse beat. What we hold sacred gives our lives meaning." ~ Commander Jeffery Sinclair, Babylon 5


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:04 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18703
Wolfguard wrote:
Doom wrote:
Wolfguard wrote:
It is most definitely war. Either Francis, his fake priests, and pedo mafia need to go willingly, or they need to be forcibly removed. They cannot stay. There is literally no other way for the Church to move forward unless these frauds are expunged.


It is not possible to 'forcibly remove' a Pope, except, I suppose, by assassination, and I hope that is not what you are suggesting.

If that was what I was saying, you would not have to ask for clarification.

There are other ways, obviously. Such a person CANNOT lead the Church, nor should these fake priests be allowed to remain. Either priests and Catholics who are true to Christ's teachings need to pressure these individuals out, OR they must secede from them. That's it. You're either OK with terrible people leading or your not. You're either OK with what they are doing or you're not. There absolutely cannot be a middle ground here, otherwise the Church not only loses even MORE credibility, but also continues to enable these acts of evil.



Your logic sounds familiar.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:39 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75509
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:

Your logic sounds familiar.


Indeed, it sounds a lot like Martin Luther.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:51 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18703
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:

Your logic sounds familiar.


Indeed, it sounds a lot like Martin Luther.


That was playing around the back of my mind. But more pointedly, it sounds like the Wide Wide World of Anglicanism, in the last 50 years.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:05 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75509
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:

Your logic sounds familiar.


Indeed, it sounds a lot like Martin Luther.


That was playing around the back of my mind. But more pointedly, it sounds like the Wide Wide World of Anglicanism, in the last 50 years.


That too, one thing is certain, the argument that it is time to leave the Catholic Church and found a new Church that will be completely free from sin, is not only NOT Catholicism, but it also involves re-writing the history of Israel.

His argument is the argument that was made by Absalom in his rebellion against the authority of King David, after all, David had murdered Uriah and stolen his wife, and on top of that, Absalom's sister was raped, and David had done nothing about it. If moral corruption was a legitimate reason for revolt, or for breaking away, surely, this time was it. But the last time I read II Samuel, scripture takes a dim view of Absalom's argument.

Or consider the revolt against Jeroboam which lead to the divided monarchy, surely if breaking away during to moral misconduct on the part of those in charge was justified, this would have been it. And yet, the scriptures clearly regard the kings of Judah as the legitimate king, and the kings of Israel as illegitimate.

Not to mention that Jesus himself said regarding the Pharisees that his followers should 'obey' their teachings because they held legitimate authority, but not follow them in their sins. He most certainly did not say 'don't follow a sinner'.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:32 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1548
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
The Baltimore Catechism is a clear an authorative guide to Catholic Doctrine in this time of confusion

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:25 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm
Posts: 78
Religion: Looking for answers
ForeverFaithful wrote:
The Baltimore Catechism is a clear an authorative guide to Catholic Doctrine in this time of confusion

Is the current catechism, on the Vatican website, not also a clear and authorative guide to Catholic Doctrine?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:44 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28984
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Jack3 wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
anawim wrote:
Since there have been popes who were removed (i. e. Pope Benedict IX), there must be some procedure that was used.

But in his case, an emperor and a council were involved. I see zero chance of Pope Francis being deposed.

No council.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Sutri

Look at the dates. I was referring to his final removal, in 1048.

Sutri, which was a small synod (council implies ecumenical), dealt with John Gratian and Benedict 's 2nd claim

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:20 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:36 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Planet California
Religion: Catholic
GKC wrote:
Wolfguard wrote:
Doom wrote:
Wolfguard wrote:
It is most definitely war. Either Francis, his fake priests, and pedo mafia need to go willingly, or they need to be forcibly removed. They cannot stay. There is literally no other way for the Church to move forward unless these frauds are expunged.


It is not possible to 'forcibly remove' a Pope, except, I suppose, by assassination, and I hope that is not what you are suggesting.

If that was what I was saying, you would not have to ask for clarification.

There are other ways, obviously. Such a person CANNOT lead the Church, nor should these fake priests be allowed to remain. Either priests and Catholics who are true to Christ's teachings need to pressure these individuals out, OR they must secede from them. That's it. You're either OK with terrible people leading or your not. You're either OK with what they are doing or you're not. There absolutely cannot be a middle ground here, otherwise the Church not only loses even MORE credibility, but also continues to enable these acts of evil.



Your logic sounds familiar.



Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:

Your logic sounds familiar.


Indeed, it sounds a lot like Martin Luther.

It's nothing of the sort. I'm not at all advocating changing Catholic teachings and traditions apart from distancing ourselves from evil men. And they are evil. What's better, continuing the same traditions away from them, or sitting on their sinking ship while the captain and his crew continue full speed into the iceberg? Ideally, THEY should leave since they are not at all representative of Christ. If they don't, then what's the point of being led by fakes? This is a "black and white" moment here. No grey area. Someone has to go one way or another.

_________________
Image

"Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side...and the truth." ~ Vorlon proverb, Babylon 5

"Life has to be more than just a pulse beat. What we hold sacred gives our lives meaning." ~ Commander Jeffery Sinclair, Babylon 5


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:41 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:36 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Planet California
Religion: Catholic
Doom wrote:
That too, one thing is certain, the argument that it is time to leave the Catholic Church and found a new Church that will be completely free from sin, is not only NOT Catholicism, but it also involves re-writing the history of Israel......Jesus himself said regarding the Pharisees that his followers should 'obey' their teachings because they held legitimate authority, but not follow them in their sins. He most certainly did not say 'don't follow a sinner'.

What irony! It's BEEN rewritten each time one of these fakes harms a child, covers it up, is protected by other "clergy," or is otherwise retained by the Church. And then there's Francis's leftism which is corrupting even more people. If you really want to get into the Bible aspect of it, there are times where those who were of a chosen lineage of God went their separate ways, the most obvious one being Isaac and Ishmael. Want another New Testament reference? Look no further than the Man whom you quoted:


Matthew 10:34

"Think not that I have come to bring peace in the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."



I have no problem following any man who walks the path of Christ, but I have ZERO tolerance for anyone using Christ as a means to harm, corrupt, or otherwise abuse their authority which only serves to spread hatred and disdain upon us and our Faith via their own selfish actions. They must either leave, or be left behind. No other choice is possible.

_________________
Image

"Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side...and the truth." ~ Vorlon proverb, Babylon 5

"Life has to be more than just a pulse beat. What we hold sacred gives our lives meaning." ~ Commander Jeffery Sinclair, Babylon 5


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Archbshp claims Pope Francis withdrew sanctions on McCar
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:45 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm
Posts: 78
Religion: Looking for answers
Wolfguard wrote:
Doom wrote:
That too, one thing is certain, the argument that it is time to leave the Catholic Church and found a new Church that will be completely free from sin, is not only NOT Catholicism, but it also involves re-writing the history of Israel......Jesus himself said regarding the Pharisees that his followers should 'obey' their teachings because they held legitimate authority, but not follow them in their sins. He most certainly did not say 'don't follow a sinner'.

What irony! It's BEEN rewritten each time one of these fakes harms a child, covers it up, is protected by other "clergy," or is otherwise retained by the Church. And then there's Francis's leftism which is corrupting even more people. If you really want to get into the Bible aspect of it, there are times where those who were of a chosen lineage of God went their separate ways, the most obvious one being Isaac and Ishmael. Want another New Testament reference? Look no further than the Man whom you quoted:


Matthew 10:34

"Think not that I have come to bring peace in the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."



I have no problem following any man who walks the path of Christ, but I have ZERO tolerance for anyone using Christ as a means to harm, corrupt, or otherwise abuse their authority which only serves to spread hatred and disdain upon us and our Faith via their own selfish actions. They must either leave, or be left behind. No other choice is possible.


Wolfguard I don't understand what you mean by "Francis's leftism which is corrupting even more people." Specifically what "leftism" are you referring to? Pope Francis's concern for the environment? For the poor? For refugees?

I wholeheartedly agree with Pope Francis on all of these issues. If Catholics cannot have these beliefs, that's me out.

How is Pope Francis "corrupting"?

You speak in unprovable-undisprovable generalities, throwing a lot of mud. Try giving some specific examples of what you are referring to. Specifically, what "leftism" of Pope Francis is "corrupting" people?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3   [ 47 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Speed Racer and 6 guests


Jump to: