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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:02 am 
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MichaelD14 wrote:
Understanding Natural Law would lead one to understand the abomination of abortion would make a martyr of the lost soul. Such a soul would not be in Hell.

How is abortion, generally speaking, martyrdom?

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:58 pm 
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MichaelD14 wrote:
gherkin wrote:

I'm reading this as an attempt to say what Limbo is. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are the first two sentences a statement about what you think Limbo is, and the rest of the post an attempt to argue against it? :scratch:


I am noting Thomasism remains the predominant Philosophy of the Catholic Church.

Understanding Natural Law would lead one to understand the abomination of abortion would make a martyr of the lost soul. Such a soul would not be in Hell.


Of course, the back and forth discussion between you and The Pickle is predicated on the belief that unborn children and born infants have some guilt of sin upon them, even though they have no rational ability to choose evil, which is the heart of sin.


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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Hijack threads much?

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Hijack threads much?



:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: Are you saying, Father, that the idea of Original Sin and Limbo are not relatives?


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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:13 pm 
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I am saying that you've covered this ground repeatedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:37 pm 
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I point out that the Council of Trent made the doctrine of Original Sin binding on Catholics.

You say something about the Eastern point of view and something about St. Augustine.

Someone asks if Eastern Catholics are bound by the decisions of Trent etc.

And so on and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:43 pm 
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I guess it was your thread to begin with, so I guess it's not a hijack, exactly, or at worst a self-hijack, but I still maintain that we've gone over this ground repeatedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
MichaelD14 wrote:
gherkin wrote:

I'm reading this as an attempt to say what Limbo is. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are the first two sentences a statement about what you think Limbo is, and the rest of the post an attempt to argue against it? :scratch:


I am noting Thomasism remains the predominant Philosophy of the Catholic Church.

Understanding Natural Law would lead one to understand the abomination of abortion would make a martyr of the lost soul. Such a soul would not be in Hell.


Of course, the back and forth discussion between you and The Pickle is predicated on the belief that unborn children and born infants have some guilt of sin upon them, even though they have no rational ability to choose evil, which is the heart of sin.

I reject your formulation of the belief in question. But I do grant that the conversation is predicated on Catholic dogma, which includes, inescapably, the teaching of Original Sin and of the necessity of baptism. That's not unusual in a conversation between Catholics, I'd have thought. Hoped.

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:23 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
MichaelD14 wrote:
gherkin wrote:

I'm reading this as an attempt to say what Limbo is. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are the first two sentences a statement about what you think Limbo is, and the rest of the post an attempt to argue against it? :scratch:


I am noting Thomasism remains the predominant Philosophy of the Catholic Church.

Understanding Natural Law would lead one to understand the abomination of abortion would make a martyr of the lost soul. Such a soul would not be in Hell.


Of course, the back and forth discussion between you and The Pickle is predicated on the belief that unborn children and born infants have some guilt of sin upon them, even though they have no rational ability to choose evil, which is the heart of sin.

I reject your formulation of the belief in question. But I do grant that the conversation is predicated on Catholic dogma, which includes, inescapably, the teaching of Original Sin and of the necessity of baptism. That's not unusual in a conversation between Catholics, I'd have thought. Hoped.


Just call it an ancestral curse instead of original sin.

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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:45 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
MichaelD14 wrote:
gherkin wrote:

I'm reading this as an attempt to say what Limbo is. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. Are the first two sentences a statement about what you think Limbo is, and the rest of the post an attempt to argue against it? :scratch:


I am noting Thomasism remains the predominant Philosophy of the Catholic Church.

Understanding Natural Law would lead one to understand the abomination of abortion would make a martyr of the lost soul. Such a soul would not be in Hell.


Of course, the back and forth discussion between you and The Pickle is predicated on the belief that unborn children and born infants have some guilt of sin upon them, even though they have no rational ability to choose evil, which is the heart of sin.


I reject your formulation of the belief in question. But I do grant that the conversation is predicated on Catholic dogma, which includes, inescapably, the teaching of Original Sin and of the necessity of baptism. That's not unusual in a conversation between Catholics, I'd have thought. Hoped.


Understood. However, you will find that Eastern Churches of all varieties and stripes do not accept Augustine's formulations of Original Sin and the guilt he believed came upon each and every person who is conceived.


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 Post subject: Re: Limbus Infantium
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Since we're all nice and peaceable these days, can I ask you to reformulate that without burying a knife in St. Augustine? The doctrine did not arise new-born from his brow, nor did he fill out its borders, and you're doing yourself no intellectual favors here.

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