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P. Francis: "There is no Hell"
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=168222
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Author:  EtcumSpiri22-0 [ Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

Doom wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:

The analogy that comes to mind. Every 10 or 15 yrs a group of seamen converge from across the globe with divergent ideas of how to handle the helm in an increasing stormy sea. They themselves have unproven skill to manage or even steer a ship of that size and capacity. They take a few days out of their busy schedules to decide who will take the helm for the next voyage. They then disburse having no idea if the new skipper knows what he's doing. Its a roll of the dice every 10 or 20 yrs.

Then, who knows?
Carte blanche.
Anything goes.
Often enough, the Cap'n goes awry
the mate's stew and they mutter
...God bless him, how long till we get another try?
Har! ;)



Why do you find it surprising to learn that Popes have different personalities and that Vatican policy changes as the identity of the Pope changes? Are you under the impression that everything the Pope says and does is infallible, so that if one Pope says he really likes Diet Coke then all of his successors have to express the same preference or else it undermines the Church?

When it comes to Papal policy, things like relations with foreign nations, making treaties, forging alliances, tax policy, finances etc are the kinds of things that can and OUGHT to change according to not merely to changing circumstances but due to the changing priorities of the new Pope. It is not as if, because one Pope forges an alliance with, say, France, that all Popes have to maintain that alliance forever no matter what, even if an anticlerical government is elected with starts persecuting the Church.


I thought the focus was the ability of a pope to rally or rattle Catholics as he may. Not treaties.

Author:  EtcumSpiri22-0 [ Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

gherkin wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
Doom wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:

Just wow.


What do you mean? :scratch:


The analogy that comes to mind. Every 10 or 15 yrs a group of seamen converge from across the globe with divergent ideas of how to handle the helm in an increasing stormy sea . They themselves have unproven skill to manage or even steer a ship of that size and capacity. They take a few days out of their busy schedules to decide who will take the helm for the next voyage. They then disburse having no idea if the new skipper knows what he's doing. Its a roll of the dice every 10 or 20 yrs.

Gosh, it's almost like Someone else is at work in guiding the Church, then. Hm. Weird. Who'd have thought Catholics believe that? :scratch:


Then why all the concern?

Author:  Jack3 [ Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

Sabbath wrote:
Doom wrote:
THAT IS MY ENTIRE POINT, and Philip Lawler's point as well, that Pope Francis is either unable or unwilling to speak clearly and THEREFORE the result is CONFUSION among the faithful because no one is sure exactly where he stands on anything. Exactly how many times do I have to say this?

I repeat, the most charitable interpretation is probably what was once said about Bill Clinton 'he means what he says when he says it, but tomorrow, when he says the exact opposite, he means that too, his sincerity is absolute, but it exists only in the passing moment,'

The charitable interpretation is that the Pope is muddleheaded and confused, the uncharitable interpretation is that he is a deceiver who is playing a kind of cynical game.


No, it was not your entire point. At least part of your point was that a strong argument could be made that PF favors abortion and gay marriage, yet failed to make one or show that anyone has.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2018/04/arizona- ... raception/

Author:  Highlander [ Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

In a related topic, our Archbishop just released a statement on immigration that was simply a collection of liberal/Progressive talking points. There was a single, short statementon Catholic teaching -- almost an afterthought -- all the rest was indistinguishable from what open border advocates are saying. It was, IMHO, a personal political statement disguised as a Catholic pronouncement.

Author:  Mrs. Timmy [ Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

Meanwhile, one of my good friends from ICE sent me this: https://youtu.be/1TWo74L8EiY

Author:  The Lord's Servant [ Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: P. Francis: "There is no Hell"

Doom wrote:
MichaelD14 wrote:
There is also the possibility that he is not being 'misquoted' at all, but rather keeps talking to him because Scalfari is the only person he feels comfortable being completely honest with, and the more this happens, the less and less plausible the 'misquotation' theory becomes. After all, as the saying goes 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me five times, shame on me', or something like that.


Not in this case. Pope Francis has been extremely clear in his warning(s) about the Devil and the risk of Hell/eternal damnation. If you are not clear on this you have not read enough of his homilies and speeches.


Because no can ever say one thing in public while believing something else in private? At any rate, the two statements can be reconciled in many ways:


Where would honesty be in that picture?

Quote:
1. He may believe that hell exists, but it is empty and no one ever goes there (Von Balthazar's 'Dare We Hope' thesis)

2. He may believe that hell exists, but no one is ever sent there permanently, rather they go there get reformed and then go on to heaven (the Origenist position)

3. He may believe that hell is not a place of eternal; punishment but that the souls that go there are annihilated

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