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 Post subject: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:27 pm 
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I like WLC but his first response to being asked about Plantinga's "Evolutionary Argument against Naturalism" was alittle weird.... saying "I'm by no means an expert on the EAAN". But regularly in debates he'll reference to the argument, parts of the argument, and consequences that come from it.

Well, he gives his answer to the question but then immediately defers to Tim McGrew to provide any correction to his understanding on it.

I don't know why, but it kind of bothers me. It's certainly a good thing to ask for guidance on a topic. But I wonder if he's just asking for guidance here because there are others (namely Mcgrew) who would put him in check with his understanding of the issue:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pm62VcCVe0

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:47 pm 
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I have to admit, that I lost a lot of my respect for William Lane Craig when I found out that he endorses Christological heresies.

https://douglasbeaumont.com/2010/11/15/ ... a-heretic/


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:00 pm 
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He also rejects divine simplicity.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He also rejects divine simplicity.
And I am convinced that this is at the root of most, if not all, of his other errors.

In Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview, Craig, alongside J.P. Moreland argues for a revised Apollinarian Christology (pp.597-614, esp. pp.598-600, 608-610). II never really understood why they would propose this, as it has been condemned since the fourth century, until it dawned on me that their view – that the Logos, in assuming flesh, “brought to Christ’s animal nature just those properties that would serve to make it a complete human nature” (Philosophical Foundations, p.608) – follows from their view of God – which is essentially a kind of ‘theistic personalism.’ They treat God and man as existing on the same ontological plane, and thus the Logos can have the same ‘properties’ as us. For their rejection of divine simplicity, see Philosophical Foundations, pp.524-526 and this blog post by Edward Feser (in addition to these).

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Bishop Barron had a public discussion with him about this not long ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzQzcgW ... ploademail

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:00 pm 
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He and I had a conversation about his rejection of DS after his Sunday School class at Johnson Ferry Baptist one day. I was very unimpressed with his understanding of Thomistic metaphysics regarding angels' incorporeality and so their relation to time, movement, etc. Very disappointing.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He also rejects divine simplicity.
And I am convinced that this is at the root of most, if not all, of his other errors.



That might be the intellectual root, but I think the real root of his problem is his arrogant dismissal of 2000 years of Christian tradition and understanding on the basis of his personal understanding of scripture. He embraces a radical Christian individualism that leads him to think that he can be the judge of ecumenical councils and accept or reject their decrees based on his personal understanding.


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:17 pm 
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I think Feser would think that theistic personalism is what lies behind the rejection of simplicity.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He also rejects divine simplicity.
And I am convinced that this is at the root of most, if not all, of his other errors.

In Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview, Craig, alongside J.P. Moreland argues for a revised Apollinarian Christology (pp.597-614, esp. pp.598-600, 608-610). II never really understood why they would propose this, as it has been condemned since the fourth century, until it dawned on me that their view – that the Logos, in assuming flesh, “brought to Christ’s animal nature just those properties that would serve to make it a complete human nature” (Philosophical Foundations, p.608) – follows from their view of God – which is essentially a kind of ‘theistic personalism.’ They treat God and man as existing on the same ontological plane, and thus the Logos can have the same ‘properties’ as us. For their rejection of divine simplicity, see Philosophical Foundations, pp.524-526 and this blog post by Edward Feser (in addition to these).


Preach; I am always telling people how important divine simplicity is, and no one seems to understand!!

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:59 am 
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I don't think his deferring to McGrew in that situation is worrisome. The question was about an epistemological topic, and the moderator turned to Craig--Craig naturally thought the question should go to McGrew who is a specialist in epistemology. But Craig's summary was solid and his turn to McGrew was, I would say, simply to acknowledge that McGrew's the real expert panelist in that area.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:00 am 
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Thanks for that reply.
I wasn't picking up that distinction at first. But now that you mention it that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:58 pm 
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PEOPLE!!

If any Protestant need to be canonized it's William Lane Craig (yes he thinks that Jesus' soul is His person etc).

When he dies, we should all chant "SANTO SUBITO" at St. Peter's square.


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He also rejects divine simplicity.
And I am convinced that this is at the root of most, if not all, of his other errors.



That might be the intellectual root, but I think the real root of his problem is his arrogant dismissal of 2000 years of Christian tradition and understanding on the basis of his personal understanding of scripture. He embraces a radical Christian individualism that leads him to think that he can be the judge of ecumenical councils and accept or reject their decrees based on his personal understanding.


That's harsh!!

Don't talk like that to an old intelligent man who's about to be canonized!


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:42 pm 
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beng wrote:
PEOPLE!!

If any Protestant need to be canonized it's William Lane Craig (yes he thinks that Jesus' soul is His person etc).

When he dies, we should all chant "SANTO SUBITO" at St. Peter's square.
But he denies divine simplicity and he holds to Christological heresy.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:03 pm 
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CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT FORGIVENESS!!


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:50 pm 
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PIZZA IS A TYPE OF FOOD!

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:09 pm 
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If you have a YouTube channel, I strongly recommend subscribing to the channel 'Classical Theist'

https://www.youtube.com/user/ChairmanDrek757

He is a Catholic and a Thomist who often criticizes William Lane Craig and Alvin Plantinga, saying that they believe in what he calls 'theistic personalism' which is distinct from what he calls 'classical theism'. Classical theism is the product of a long intellectual tradition going back to Plato and Aristotle, to the Neoplatonists like Plotinus, to Augustine, St. Thomas and the medieval scholastics.

Theistic personalism, however, rejects this long intellectual tradition and is ultimately incapable of defending either the existence of God, the truth of Christianity or Christian orthodoxy.


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Ed Feser agrees with that critique of Plantinga and Craig, FWIW.

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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Ed Feser agrees with that critique of Plantinga and Craig, FWIW.


Well, Plantinga is a Reformed Christian and Reformed theology has traditionally rejected (and usually ignorantly) rejected Thomism and Aristotle. I don't know what William Lane Craig's excuse is.

The more I learn, the more I become convinced that Thomism is the only philosophy that can possibly explain or defend Christianity, the only philosophy which is fully consistent with theism. Everything else leads, either directly or indirectly, to atheism, pantheism or some other non-Christian theology.


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 Post subject: Re: William Lane Craig deferring to Tim McGrew
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
PIZZA IS A TYPE OF FOOD!

Kudos!

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