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 Post subject: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:13 pm 
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I am tempted to state this as a general rule, but Ott doesn't mention it at all as far I can tell. The only potential exception would seem to be Communion, but is giving Communion to someone giving them a sacrament, properly speaking?

Otherwise it's simple. You can't baptize yourself nor confirm yourself. A priest can't absolve his own sins not give himself the anointing of the sick. Married couples administer the sacrament to each other, and even in Eastern thought, a person can't witness his own marriage. And since it takes a bishop to ordain, there's no question of ordaining oneself.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Seems like a reasonable rule.

You can't forgive your own sin because no one can be a judge in his own case, and you can't baptize, ordain or confirm yourself, because then where is the authority to confect the sacrament coming from in the first place? Obviously, these things have to be obtained from someone else, you can't give what you don't have.


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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:29 pm 
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True but what of Matrimony? The Priest is the witness.

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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:59 am 
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Quote:
1623 According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ's grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern Churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent given by the spouses, but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.

The person who witnesses the vows does not minister the sacrament; the spouses are ministers for each other, still not administering grace to themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:01 am 
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Doom wrote:
Seems like a reasonable rule.

You can't forgive your own sin because no one can be a judge in his own case, and you can't baptize, ordain or confirm yourself, because then where is the authority to confect the sacrament coming from in the first place? Obviously, these things have to be obtained from someone else, you can't give what you don't have.

I'm not sure that works for baptism, because literally anyone can baptize as long as he intends to do what the Church does.

A priest can confirm, given delegation, and confirmation is not necessary for the valid reception of orders (it is for liceity), so in theory there could be an unconfirmed priest or even bishop.

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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:01 pm 
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If you could baptize yourself, there would be no need for baptism of desire, which can happen if you request baptism, but die before it can take place.

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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I'm not sure that works for baptism because literally, anyone can baptize as long as he intends to do what the Church does.

A priest can confirm, given delegation, and confirmation is not necessary for the valid reception of orders (it is for liceity), so in theory, there could be an unconfirmed priest or even bishop.


But it doesn't seem to make sense for someone to be both the minister and the recipient of the same sacrament, those are two roles being performed there.


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 Post subject: Re: No one can administer a sacrament to himself?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:00 pm 
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My concern is more over how to explain Holy Communion as the exception. I think the answer is that the sacramental effect itself is the Transubstantiation, and the effects of Communion are the effects of the reception of Christ rather than directly those of the sacramental action itself.

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