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 Post subject: Atheist believes in Parallel Universe, but not God
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Reason number 236,564 why atheists are not as smart as they think they are.


    Some religious guy:
    the funniest thing to me most people who don't believe in God believe in other things that are ridiculous like aliens,big foot, alternate realitys,parallel world's..that just shows there stupidity and corruption..I feel sorry that they opened there self up to such lies and let there self be manipulated so bad.

    The atheist:
    you're describing yourself you've been manipulated and opened yourself up to lies - parallel universes have evidence based in science yours is based on faith, faith by definition is wrong because it can manipulate you and make you do things without question (this is how Isis justify their actions.) and no one believes in *expletive* Bigfoot you down

    Me:
    There is no empirical scientific evidence for paralel universe.

    It's just a comic plot.

    If you believe it, you are more gullible than the theist you critize.

    The atheist:
    an example of how my version of evidence consists of things based in reality which we can observe and validate. Yours is a 2000 year old book and a 'feeling', and your reasoning that your mind can never be changed is what's wrong with the world.

    Me:
    Where is this "evidence [that] consist of things based in reality which we can observe and validate" about the so call paralel universe (see how I don't give a crap about spelling there? Good)?

    When you can find it, maybe you're ready to talk about this 2000 years old book. Until then, do hold your peace.

    The atheist:
    I linked the evidence. I'm not saying they're real, I'm saying they're not ridiculous claims and I'm saying that things have been found which can be observed (the cold spot) which would suggest they may exist. The bible isn't, in my opinion, sufficient evidence for God because why see that as the true word over the Quran or even Ancient Greek scripture about their gods. They are all the same and can be explained by humanities narcissism and insecurity.

    Me:
    I see no link.

    And you haven't done your research about paralel (oops, I did that on purpose) universe. Paralel universe is as real as a lightsaber.

    And you're comparing that to Christians' belief... Christians based their believe on written testimonial accounts of people that age that are verifiable through historical science. You based your believe on some comic book plot? Really?

    Just because you saw it on Star Trek, Marvel moview or any science fiction story doesn't make it base on science.


He then dropped the subject.


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 Post subject: Re: Atheist believes in Parallel Universe, but not God
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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And if any of you interested on the rest of the exchange (it's still going on):

    The atheist:
    so you think everything written down is true.

    Me:
    No.

    The atheist:
    well then why not believe what the aborigines wrote down about their gods? Don't say because the bible can be verified through historical science because we both know jesus can't be proven to be the son of God because we believe these authors unconditionally.

    Me:
    This is an extremely easy question that internet atheist just don't know the answer. They think this would stump all theists, especially the Christians who they hated most (why is that, one wonders...)

    Now, contrary to what shallow internet atheists belief there are evidence for the existence of God. These evidence are not base on faith but base on reason. Another thing about this evidence is that it is not an empirical evidence (natural science, like chemistry, physics, biology, demand empirical evidence. Other sciences, suchas math, history, law do not deman empirical evidence).

    From several evidence for the existence of God, particularly Aquinas Five Ways (and maybe William Lane Craig's Kalam Cosmological Argument) we conclude that a God must have certain traits. One of them is unicity.

    So, a polytheistic religion like Aboriginese's religion, through reason alone, is excluded from being the true religion.

    The atheist:
    what about Judaism, Islam and any other monotheistic religion (I don't agree with your evidence based on reason just wondering how you would justify the choice of Christianity if this were true)

    Me:
    I know plenty of evidence for the existence of God that is based on logical reason. As far as I know, none of them can exclude the God of Islam, Judaism, Christianity.

    To get to a Christian God through reason alone, you need historical evidence.

    Now, if there was really some Jesus Christ, who claimed to be God, who died on the cross and who appeared to many, then these historical facts prove that Christianity (the speicific religion that belief those facts) is true. Why is that? Well, think about it, if someone claims to be God , dies and then appears, that could only mean that his claim is true. If Christ lied or wrong about being God, then there's no way the real God would raise Him from the dead. Since He was raised from the dead, that means His claim is corroborated.

    Now those facts (that He claimed to be God, that He died, that He appeared to many) are historical facts corroborated by testimonial evidence. Not just from the New Testament writings (which is the most authentic ancient historical account compare to other ancient account, such as that you know more about 1st century Israel from NT than you know ancient Rome from pagan sources), but also from pagan sources.

    So that's how you get to the Christian God.

    PS
    By contrast the truth of the Quran is contradicted by many historical accounts. Especially Quran story about first century world where Jesus and the apostles lieved. We have written accounts from direct disciples of the apostles (note, Islam acknowledge all Christian apostles, plus other NT figure like Nicodemus, in their tradition) such as Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of Peter and John), Clement of Rome (disciple of Peter and Paul), Polycarp of Smyrna (disciple of John), that contradict the quran.

    By historical standard alone, a book that is 600 years after the fact (ie. Quran) is way less reliable than a written account by the eyewitness and people from the same century where the event happenned.

    The atheist:
    you are assuming that everything in the bible is true - that jesus did actually raise himself from the dead and that everyone accounting this was right. I don't think there's anyway of believing in a God without faith, and I think that faith by nature is wrong.

    Me:
    And you are assuming that the bible is false.

    Look, all New Testament scholars, and many of them are atheist or Agnostic (like Ludemann, Ehrman etc), agree that there are some historical facts that is undeniably true. Some of them are His death on the cross, His tomb was empty, He appeared to many afterward. Mike Liccona, an NT scholars too, say that if you lock all NT scholars and not letting them come out unless they could agree to some historical fact about NT, they would agree to the above.

    Again, this is historical facts, not faith.

    You need faith for things like Trinity, original sin, existence of Heaven and Hell. But there are religious truth that are non faith based (such as that stealing is wrong etc). The existence of God, some historical accounts from the bible are non faith based religious truth.

    The atheist:
    Jesus was real. He died on the cross. I don't know about his tomb being empty or whether there were multiple GENUINE accounts of him appearing to him. I assume the bible is wrong because it goes against evidence we see today, so I try to see a rational explanation for these things. You cannot say that the existence of God a religious truth, because it just isn't.

    Me:
    Why do you assume that the Bible goes against evidence we see today?

    Because of miracles? Well, three responds to that. First, ALL (but one) ancient historical writers (from them we get who Alexander the Great was, what did he do, who Nero was, why the hell did he burn Rome etc) have miracles in their writings. So miracles are just how ancient people writes. We need to be wise and not throw the baby (what's real historically) with the bath water (miraculous accounts in their writing). Second, miracles are happening today (take the continuous miracle of incorrupt body of Catholic saints, or the incorrupt eucharistic flesh and blood in Lanciano. Those things defy natural science and has been incorrupt for hundreds of years without artificial means). Third, even if one subscribe to naturalism (who don't believe in supernatural like miracles), they can't just declare that biblical miracle did not happen therefore the bible is historically unreliable. At best what they can say is that they can't attest to the authenticity of the gospel (not affirming, but also not rejecting).

    Now, the facts that I'm talking about (that Jesus claim to be God, that He died on the cross, that He appeared to many) ARE NOT MIRACULOUS. So they are just ordinary event not needing some "rational explanation." This is one of the reason all NT scholars can agree to them. There are nothing extraordinary about those facts in themselves.

    Lastly, existence of God is a religious truth, even atheists would agree. So, I don't understand what you mean by saying that it isn't. Probably there's a typo somewhere.


Last edited by beng on Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Atheist believes in Parallel Universe, but not God
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:54 pm 
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King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 74986
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Evidence for a parallel universe? By definition, it is not possible for there to be evidence for a parallel universe, by definition, it is impossible for there to be evidence for a parallel universe.


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 Post subject: Re: Atheist believes in Parallel Universe, but not God
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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What?

I thought at CE3N they're colliding particles at the speed of light, hoping that somehow a portal to a universe where I am a Super Saiyan will open!

And that atheist guy mentioned "cold spot" (which when I wiki it, it turned out that some woman theorize that the cold spot are actually a very large glimpse of that paralel universe).


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 Post subject: Re: Atheist believes in Parallel Universe, but not God
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:38 pm 
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King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
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Religion: Anticukite Catholic
By definition, anything outside the universe is impossible to detect within the universe.


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