Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 25 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Edit, removed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:27 am 
Offline
Defender
Defender
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:20 am
Posts: 14241
Location: West Virginia
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus 4th Degree
Givi46 wrote:
:shock: :laughhard

:shock: :shock: :laughhard :laughhard

_________________
For you love all things that are, and hate none of the things which you have made: for you did not appoint, or make anything hating it. Wisdom 11:25


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Edit, removed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:57 am 
Offline
King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 74926
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Neither ending a sentence with a preposition nor splitting the infinitive is a genuine grammar error.

Let's be clear, prepositions are things that it is perfectly acceptable to end sentences with.

The only time it may be an error to either split the infinitive or end a sentence with a preposition is when doing so results in a sentence that is ambiguous or difficult to understand. Since this is very rarely the case, and since there is a large number of thoughts that are most naturally expressed by putting the preposition at the end of the sentence, both practices are perfectly acceptable.

It is natural and makes sense to say 'this is something that I will not put up with.' It is unnatural to say 'this is something up with which I will not put.'

When trying to avoid putting a preposition at the end of a sentence results in a tortured expression like 'this is something up with which I will not put', it is certainly acceptable to express the thought in the natural way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Edit, removed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:14 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4262
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
Or you could just say, "this isn't something I'll tolerate" or more forcefully, "I won't tolerate this" :fyi:

_________________
Making Divine Simplicity Simple: Rediscovering Who and What God Is - an evangelical's (my!) attempt to explain Divine Simplicity in non-technical language
The Galatian Heresy (Gal 3:1-6) - An Argument for Sanctification by Faith Alone


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Edit, removed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:47 am 
Offline
King of Cool

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 74926
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
theJack wrote:
Or you could just say, "this isn't something I'll tolerate" or more forcefully, "I won't tolerate this" :fyi:



But you're basing that advice solely on the false assumption that ending a sentence with a preposition is bad, but it isn't, so there is no need to completely re-word the sentence or edit it at all because there is nothing wrong with ending a sentence in a preposition, and no need to try to avoid doing so. :fyi:

The question here is what is the purpose of rules of grammar. There are two main theories:

The precriptivist view which holds that the rules of grammar are just completely arbitrary and ultimately meaningless, and that grammar consists of arbitrary rules imposed for no reason. Under this understanding, one should avoid ending a sentence with a preposition because one day somebody made up the rule that sentence can't end with a preposition, and so we all have to blindly obey and that's just the way it is.

The other view is that grammar exists for a purpose, namely to make that communication is easier by making sure that it is clear, unambiguous and easy to understand. Under this view, 'bad grammar' can be defined as something that makes language ambiguous or more difficult to understand, and that as long as the meaning is clear and unambiguous, pretty much anything is acceptable.

The history of the English language is the history of the battle between the prescriptivists and everyone else. And that battle is pretty one sided: the prescriptivists have not won a single battle yet, in the 1,000 year history of the English language.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Edit, removed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:38 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4262
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
Thank you for rehearsing a very old and extremely well known debate. It's entirely irrelevant to my point. My point is exactly what I said. You don't have to end your sentence with the preposition. You could state it as I did. It's obviously absurd to say something like, "this is something up with which I will not put." It's more absurd to suggest that such sentences would be endorsed by those who would rather people talk and write correctly. Whereas I am most certainly not making the assumption "that ending a sentence with a preposition is bad," you most certainly are being incredibly uncharitable in your interpretation of those with whom you disagree (or, if it makes you happy, who you disagree with).

If you're curious about what people might say who don't claim the stupidity of prescriptivism but who still think you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition, you are free to ask. Or you can feel free to continue to assume. :fyi:

_________________
Making Divine Simplicity Simple: Rediscovering Who and What God Is - an evangelical's (my!) attempt to explain Divine Simplicity in non-technical language
The Galatian Heresy (Gal 3:1-6) - An Argument for Sanctification by Faith Alone


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 25 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


Jump to: