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 Post subject: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Some questions on Hope

What is it??

Why does the world struggle with it?

How can one grow in it?

I welcome any and all thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Arky wrote:
Some questions on Hope

What is it?? http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm

Why does the world struggle with it? IMHO....It’s a theological virtue placing one’s trust in Christ. I believe this virtue is properly “initiated” at Baptism. Most of the world isn’t baptized. In addition, like all virtues, it requires “practice” (see below)

How can one grow in it? By constantly placing one’s trust in Christ in all things; great and small.

I welcome any and all thoughts

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:55 pm 
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You would probably know these already:

Arky wrote:
Some questions on Hope

What is it??


CCC 1817 Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful."84 "The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life."

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Why does the world struggle with it?



20. The nineteenth century held fast to its faith in progress as the new form of human hope, and it continued to consider reason and freedom as the guiding stars to be followed along the path of hope. ... Karl Marx took up the rallying call, and applied his incisive language and intellect to the task of launching this major new and, as he thought, definitive step in history towards salvation—towards what Kant had described as the “Kingdom of God”. Once the truth of the hereafter had been rejected, it would then be a question of establishing the truth of the here and now. The critique of Heaven is transformed into the critique of earth, the critique of theology into the critique of politics. Together with the victory of the revolution, though, Marx's fundamental error also became evident. He showed precisely how to overthrow the existing order, but he did not say how matters should proceed thereafter. He simply presumed that with the expropriation of the ruling class, with the fall of political power and the socialization of means of production, the new Jerusalem would be realized. ... Marx not only omitted to work out how this new world would be organized—which should, of course, have been unnecessary. His silence on this matter follows logically from his chosen approach. His error lay deeper. He forgot that man always remains man. He forgot man and he forgot man's freedom. He forgot that freedom always remains also freedom for evil. He thought that once the economy had been put right, everything would automatically be put right. His real error is materialism: man, in fact, is not merely the product of economic conditions, and it is not possible to redeem him purely from the outside by creating a favourable economic environment...

26. It is not science that redeems man: man is redeemed by love. This applies even in terms of this present world. When someone has the experience of a great love in his life, this is a moment of “redemption” which gives a new meaning to his life. But soon he will also realize that the love bestowed upon him cannot by itself resolve the question of his life. It is a love that remains fragile. It can be destroyed by death. The human being needs unconditional love. He needs the certainty which makes him say: “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38- 39). If this absolute love exists, with its absolute certainty, then—only then—is man “redeemed”, whatever should happen to him in his particular circumstances. This is what it means to say: Jesus Christ has “redeemed” us. Through him we have become certain of God, a God who is not a remote “first cause” of the world, because his only-begotten Son has become man and of him everyone can say: “I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal 2:20).

27. In this sense it is true that anyone who does not know God, even though he may entertain all kinds of hopes, is ultimately without hope, without the great hope that sustains the whole of life (cf. Eph 2:12). Man's great, true hope which holds firm in spite of all disappointments can only be God—God who has loved us and who continues to love us “to the end,” until all “is accomplished” (cf. Jn 13:1 and 19:30). Whoever is moved by love begins to perceive what “life” really is. He begins to perceive the meaning of the word of hope that we encountered in the Baptismal Rite: from faith I await “eternal life”—the true life which, whole and unthreatened, in all its fullness, is simply life. Jesus, who said that he had come so that we might have life and have it in its fullness, in abundance (cf. Jn 10:10), has also explained to us what “life” means: “this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (Jn 17:3). Life in its true sense is not something we have exclusively in or from ourselves: it is a relationship. And life in its totality is a relationship with him who is the source of life. If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”.

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How can one grow in it?


32. A first essential setting for learning hope is prayer. When no one listens to me any more, God still listens to me. When I can no longer talk to anyone or call upon anyone, I can always talk to God. When there is no longer anyone to help me deal with a need or expectation that goes beyond the human capacity for hope, he can help me[25]. When I have been plunged into complete solitude ...; if I pray I am never totally alone. The late Cardinal Nguyen Van Thuan, a prisoner for thirteen years, nine of them spent in solitary confinement, has left us a precious little book: Prayers of Hope. During thirteen years in jail, in a situation of seemingly utter hopelessness, the fact that he could listen and speak to God became for him an increasing power of hope, which enabled him, after his release, to become for people all over the world a witness to hope—to that great hope which does not wane even in the nights of solitude.

40. I would like to add here another brief comment with some relevance for everyday living. There used to be a form of devotion—perhaps less practised today but quite widespread not long ago—that included the idea of “offering up” the minor daily hardships that continually strike at us like irritating “jabs”, thereby giving them a meaning. Of course, there were some exaggerations and perhaps unhealthy applications of this devotion, but we need to ask ourselves whether there may not after all have been something essential and helpful contained within it. What does it mean to offer something up? Those who did so were convinced that they could insert these little annoyances into Christ's great “com-passion” so that they somehow became part of the treasury of compassion so greatly needed by the human race. In this way, even the small inconveniences of daily life could acquire meaning and contribute to the economy of good and of human love. Maybe we should consider whether it might be judicious to revive this practice ourselves.


Spe salvi (November 30, 2007)
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-x ... #_ftnref33

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Arky wrote:
Some questions on Hope

What is it??


Read Benedict XVI's Spe Salvi par 7-9.

Quote:
Why does the world struggle with it?


I don't think the world struggles with Hope. To have hope is inherent in human. Everyone has hope. What happen is, many misplaced their hope

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How can one grow in it?


Well for once you better hoping for the right thing, instead of misplacing your hope to something that can't promise much (government, wealth, friends etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:11 pm 
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An important part of growing in hope is being deliberately thankful for the things God is already giving you.

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
An important part of growing in hope is being deliberately thankful for the things God is already giving you.


How is that? I don't see the connection.


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:22 am 
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Because one of the reasons people struggle with hope (and the OP is definitely right in saying that they do) is that they don't trust in the goodness of God. The practice of giving thanks helps wake a person up to what God is already doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:06 am 
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Count Your Blessings
Johnson Oatman, Jr., pub.1897

Verse 1:
When upon life’s billows you are tempest-tossed,
When you are discouraged, thinking all is lost,
Count your many blessings, name them one by one,
And it will surprise you what the Lord has done.

    Refrain:
    Count your blessings, name them one by one,
    Count your blessings, see what God has done!
    Count your blessings, name them one by one,
    *Count your many blessings, see what God has done.
    [*And it will surprise you what the Lord has done.]

Verse 2:
Are you ever burdened with a load of care?
Does the cross seem heavy you are called to bear?
Count your many blessings, every doubt will fly,
And you will keep singing as the days go by.
(Refrain)

Verse 3:
When you look at others with their lands and gold,
Think that Christ has promised you His wealth untold;
Count your many blessings—*money cannot buy [*wealth can never buy]
Your reward in heaven, nor your home on high.
(Refrain)

Verse 4:
So, amid the conflict whether great or small,
Do not be discouraged, God is over all;
Count your many blessings, angels will attend,
Help and comfort give you to your journey’s end.
(Refrain)

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:48 pm 
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this reminds me of something i am struggling with- hoping for this life. the bible says we need to focus on what is above not what is below - but i want friends, i want a husband i want things in this life. is it wrong to want things for this life? i am very isolated. this must be some kind of temporal punishment.


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:27 pm 
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How many of the saints lacked a spouse and "things in this life"? Jesus Himself had "no where to lay His head" (Matt 8:20b). Were any of them under divine punishment? Job had those things and lost them. He desired to have them greatly, and so his losing them brought him very great distress. Was it wrong of him to want those things, and was he under divine punishment? Did God not make good things to be enjoyed by people, and if so, should we not desire them?

I think you know those things. What I really wonder about is why you feel like lacking those things in this life means that God is punishing you in some way. Per Fr's comments above, can you name the blessings that you do have? I can't help but think of Phil 4:6 here, "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God."

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:44 pm 
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because i dont feel like i can carry on much longer like this. it's the same cycle. i repent, count my blessings, focus on the good things, pray etc. then things fall apart. yes i have blessings but i really literally lack social connections and it hurts. i am tired of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:05 pm 
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"It is not good for man to be alone." God gave us a church for a reason. God Himself is in community, and we need that, too -- first and fundamentally with God, but also with other people. And the desire for a spouse is of course a natural one, and a strong one. So when we lack those things, it is normal to feel sadness and frustration and despair. That's just how God made our emotions to work.

So I'm not asking why you feel those things. I'm glad you can recognize and verbalize that. What I am asking you about is you saying, "this must be some kind of temporal punishment." How do you get from feeling sad and hurting over lacking something we normally need for happiness in this life, for not having things we desire by nature . . . what is causing you to jump from those feelings to God is punishing me?

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:54 pm 
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kpl2014 wrote:
because i dont feel like i can carry on much longer like this. it's the same cycle. i repent, count my blessings, focus on the good things, pray etc. then things fall apart. yes i have blessings but i really literally lack social connections and it hurts. i am tired of it.


I’m going to be blunt. It’s going to sound uncharitable, but sometimes getting to the point helps to illustrate a point. So please know I mean this with charity.

So my response to what you have said above is, “Yeah, your’re tired of it? Well so is everyone else.”

Believe it or not, I find great comfort is knowing that there are loads of people just like you and me that are “tired of it”. That fact actually makes me feel not alone. This life is tough. The greater the prize the harder the race. Heaven is the greatest prize, so it make sense this life is the hardest race.

We’re all in the cosmic struggle together. Saint Mother Theresa didn’t feel God’s presence for over 50 years. She felt alone and was getting “tired of it”, but never gave up. Read this —->http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/faith-and-character/faith-and-character/mother-teresas-long-dark-night.html

So you’re really not alone. I promise.

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:32 am 
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theJack wrote:
"It is not good for man to be alone." God gave us a church for a reason. God Himself is in community, and we need that, too -- first and fundamentally with God, but also with other people. And the desire for a spouse is of course a natural one, and a strong one. So when we lack those things, it is normal to feel sadness and frustration and despair. That's just how God made our emotions to work.

So I'm not asking why you feel those things. I'm glad you can recognize and verbalize that. What I am asking you about is you saying, "this must be some kind of temporal punishment." How do you get from feeling sad and hurting over lacking something we normally need for happiness in this life, for not having things we desire by nature . . . what is causing you to jump from those feelings to God is punishing me?


i don't think it's definitely a punishment but i do think it can be a result of my sins because we reap what we sow and i have done terrible things most of my life


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:03 am 
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kpl2014,

How involved are you with the activities of your local parish?

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:55 am 
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plus it's not so much that i think wanting a husband and good things in this life is wrong so much as i wonder if i want them the wrong way. we're supposed to be detached? i'm not.

i cant really go to parish events bc i dont have anyone to watch my son.


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:10 pm 
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you guys must have prayed for me bc i feel very much better today


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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:42 pm 
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I certainly can't comment, and even if I could I wouldn't, on any "terrible things" you have done. My own view of things (so take it for what it's worth) is that God is a forgiving God, that upon confession and repentance, there's no more punishment in store. That wouldn't exempt us from any natural consequences of those terrible actions, of course. But that might be worth reflecting on . . . is your difficulty in obtaining the things you want due to divine punishment, natural consequences, or perhaps neither of the above (Jesus made pretty clear that the man born blind didn't suffer out of any sort of punishment at all, or again, think of Job).

As you reflect on that question, a related one might present itself: how likely is it that your frustrations and despair that you're feeling as a result of not having some the things you described . . . could it be that it really is NOT a punishment or consequence at all, but rather that's your natural, human reaction of attempting to find meaning in suffering? What I mean is, humans very much by nature assign purpose and meaning to almost everything we encounter. (Somebody, it might have been Doom, but I don't remember, posted a video pointing to arguments rooted in psychology showing that human beings are naturally theists from birth ... find the video, I highly recommend.) So when something bad happens, we immediately start asking, "What caused it?" In other words, we start looking for blame. That's one of the reasons that anger is a normal part of the grieving process . . . we find something or someone to blame for our loss. And a very easy target, especially when one isn't readily available, is ourselves. But maybe it's possible that sometimes bad stuff just happens, bad luck, if you will. God allows that because such events (good or bad) give us a unique opportunity to grow in grace and (true) virtue. But that doesn't change the fact that they "just happen." In those cases, there is no one to blame. Not yourself. Not past actions. Not anyone or anything. It just happens. So it can take some hard work to recognize that, even though we're having a normal reaction in blaming ourselves, that we really aren't to blame after all.

So what do you do with that? You seek God's will. You seek how He would have you respond to such things. You seek His face, follow His leading. In my experience, you're more likely to find Him there than anywhere else.

On a final note, and this post is already too long, I notice you say that we are supposed to be detached. Can you say more about that? I'm not sure I know what you mean.

I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm sure people here have prayed for you. That's been my experience, too. :) :wave

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
An important part of growing in hope is being deliberately thankful for the things God is already giving you.


:yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Hope
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:06 pm 
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theJack wrote:
I certainly can't comment, and even if I could I wouldn't, on any "terrible things" you have done. My own view of things (so take it for what it's worth) is that God is a forgiving God, that upon confession and repentance, there's no more punishment in store. That wouldn't exempt us from any natural consequences of those terrible actions, of course. But that might be worth reflecting on . . . is your difficulty in obtaining the things you want due to divine punishment, natural consequences, or perhaps neither of the above (Jesus made pretty clear that the man born blind didn't suffer out of any sort of punishment at all, or again, think of Job).

As you reflect on that question, a related one might present itself: how likely is it that your frustrations and despair that you're feeling as a result of not having some the things you described . . . could it be that it really is NOT a punishment or consequence at all, but rather that's your natural, human reaction of attempting to find meaning in suffering? What I mean is, humans very much by nature assign purpose and meaning to almost everything we encounter. (Somebody, it might have been Doom, but I don't remember, posted a video pointing to arguments rooted in psychology showing that human beings are naturally theists from birth ... find the video, I highly recommend.) So when something bad happens, we immediately start asking, "What caused it?" In other words, we start looking for blame. That's one of the reasons that anger is a normal part of the grieving process . . . we find something or someone to blame for our loss. And a very easy target, especially when one isn't readily available, is ourselves. But maybe it's possible that sometimes bad stuff just happens, bad luck, if you will. God allows that because such events (good or bad) give us a unique opportunity to grow in grace and (true) virtue. But that doesn't change the fact that they "just happen." In those cases, there is no one to blame. Not yourself. Not past actions. Not anyone or anything. It just happens. So it can take some hard work to recognize that, even though we're having a normal reaction in blaming ourselves, that we really aren't to blame after all.

So what do you do with that? You seek God's will. You seek how He would have you respond to such things. You seek His face, follow His leading. In my experience, you're more likely to find Him there than anywhere else.

On a final note, and this post is already too long, I notice you say that we are supposed to be detached. Can you say more about that? I'm not sure I know what you mean.

I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm sure people here have prayed for you. That's been my experience, too. :) :wave


thank you for your thoughts, they are helpful.
i can't think of exactly where, someone else can probably clarify better, but a lot of catholic spiritual books talk about being detached. we're supposed to want God's will not our own and if there is something we want we should have the attitude - if God allows it great but if it's not His will i am happy without it.

i am kind of detached i guess, i know if i try to "make things happen" on my own they wont be good but sometimes i think i'll be really sad if God's will for me is different than what i want to happen (even though that sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud)


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