Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 11 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:59 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:39 am
Posts: 1367
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Religion: Catholic
What do Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in regards to confession? I thought they had all the same sacraments but a co-worker of mine who is Serbian and attends a Serbian Orthodox Church says they do not.

I cursory Internet search says something about not having to confess to a priest, but to any spiritual father or mother who has been given permission to hear confessions by the bishop.

Any know something about this? Brother Ed?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:39 am 
Offline
Middle Management
Middle Management
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 28911
Location: Sacred Heart of Jesus
Religion: Catholic
As with other things, you will find varying opinions from the EO on this. In general, it has been my experience that many EO see confession as an option but not as a necessity like we see it.

I don't think I have read anything about needing approval from the Bishop, but I seem to recall monks who were not necessarily Priests hearing confessions and being spiritual directors. The Staretz, for example.

_________________
Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:58 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:39 am
Posts: 1367
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Religion: Catholic
Bonaventure wrote:
As with other things, you will find varying opinions from the EO on this. In general, it has been my experience that many EO see confession as an option but not as a necessity like we see it.

I don't think I have read anything about needing approval from the Bishop, but I seem to recall monks who were not necessarily Priests hearing confessions and being spiritual directors. The Staretz, for example.


This is generally what I found on wikipedia. The wikipedia article said the confessor could be any "spiritually advanced" person, even a woman.

Thanks, Bon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:18 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 11964
Location: Ultima Thule
Religion: Catholic
What is the reason given by those who believe this?

What do the Russian Orthodox believe in this regard?

_________________
'The only cure for sagging or fainting faith is Communion.... Like the act of Faith it must be continuous and grow by exercise. Frequency is of the highest effect. Seven times a week is more nourishing than seven times at intervals.'
J.R.R. Tolkien

Blasé member of PPPA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:16 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:25 pm
Posts: 10028
Location: As I understand it.....in God's will. This is the best place to be.
Religion: Byzantine Catholic
Church Affiliations: Past Grand Knight KoC 15107
CardsHockey wrote:
What do Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in regards to confession? I thought they had all the same sacraments but a co-worker of mine who is Serbian and attends a Serbian Orthodox Church says they do not.

I cursory Internet search says something about not having to confess to a priest, but to any spiritual father or mother who has been given permission to hear confessions by the bishop
.

Any know something about this? Brother Ed?


That's news to me. The only differences I have ever seen was when I went to confession with a Melkite priest who told me there was no penance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:33 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76199
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that confession was sometimes made to a third party who then assured the bishop or priest that absolution could be given, which he would then do. As I say, I don't vouch for any of that.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:36 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:39 am
Posts: 1367
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Religion: Catholic
Light of the East wrote:
CardsHockey wrote:
What do Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in regards to confession? I thought they had all the same sacraments but a co-worker of mine who is Serbian and attends a Serbian Orthodox Church says they do not.

I cursory Internet search says something about not having to confess to a priest, but to any spiritual father or mother who has been given permission to hear confessions by the bishop
.

Any know something about this? Brother Ed?


That's news to me. The only differences I have ever seen was when I went to confession with a Melkite priest who told me there was no penance.


As referenced in my response to Bon, I pulled that information from wikipedia so it may of course be incorrect.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:39 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 76199
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
CardsHockey wrote:
I pulled that information from wikipedia so it may of course be incorrect.

:shock: It's on the Interwebz. It must be true!

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:54 pm 
Offline
Middle Management
Middle Management
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 28911
Location: Sacred Heart of Jesus
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
My understanding (which could well be wrong) is that confession was sometimes made to a third party who then assured the bishop or priest that absolution could be given, which he would then do. As I say, I don't vouch for any of that.



I've seen this related before as well although I don't know how prevalent the practice is.

In doing some research, it does seem like confession is seen as more necessary to the EO than I had previously thought it was. They do not have rules about it like we do such as it must precede reception of Holy Communion after committing a mortal sin (most likely because they do not accept the distinction between mortal and venial sin).

_________________
Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:56 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28897
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Light of the East wrote:
CardsHockey wrote:
What do Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in regards to confession? I thought they had all the same sacraments but a co-worker of mine who is Serbian and attends a Serbian Orthodox Church says they do not.

I cursory Internet search says something about not having to confess to a priest, but to any spiritual father or mother who has been given permission to hear confessions by the bishop
.

Any know something about this? Brother Ed?


That's news to me. The only differences I have ever seen was when I went to confession with a Melkite priest who told me there was no penance.

That seems bizarre, as the Orthodox retained the actual canonical penalties longer than we. Indulgences actually started as penances given in confession, in lieu of the canonical penances. So instead of 7 years of fasting, and 10 years among the protstrators...you would do a lesser act and the Church would supply the rest as far as temporal punishment was due.. Heck, this has been cited to show that Orthodox do actually believe in indulgences, when properly understood, as they do this. Maybe different Orthodox do differently? I know Russian Orthodox are, in their sacramental theology and discipline, the closest to the West oddly enough.

I do know that in the past, there was a common belief in the East that the power to absolve went with being holy, and holiness was found not the ascetics, those who lived on pillar, and didn't have to eat or poop, or ate and pooped little*. Bishops and priests could be mere adminstrators, whether or not "the holy" was found there didn't have much to do with their holy orders. Whereas in the West, holiness was associated with the bishop first and foremost. I am trying to remember who it was exactly, but a visitor from the West (prior to even Photius) asked the Emperor who he confessed to. The Emperor said that he confessed to the hermit that lived in the hills. The Westerner asked him, is he a bishop or mere priest? The Emperor answers, I don't know if he is even ordained. When asked why he thought the man holy enough, he responded that he had questioned the man. The hermit had said that he ate rarely, and only very little, bland food. And that he pooped very little, and it was hard and dry. That might sound disgusting, but they seriously believed that living the vita angelica meant having a perfect balance restored in the body, and you would not have to eat or eject anything, you body already being in equilibrium

Later on, the power to confess was seen in general as connected to celibates, whether priests or not.

However, the canons adhered to now my the Orthodox require a priest for the sacrament. That past practice of going to any celibate is either explained (without any contemporary evidence) the way Fr. Kenobi did. Or, some Orthodox will admit that it was a widespread error, but only among confused laity. I do know, to this day, in some Eastern countries it is still considered taboo to confess to a married priest, though my understanding is that this is less to do with his holiness, and more concern about his "gossiping wife." Or at least that is what I have been told by priests from the Ukraine.

Anyhow, this seems to cooroborate what I said about current practice: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Confession#Freq ... Confession


As a side note: It is interesting that when we "split" there was not a list of seven sacraments as we know it. Indeed, many thought that the consecration of a king or emperor was a sacrament (look back to Saul/David, and to the Emperor, who was the bishop of bishops in the East). And you get varying lists. Until Peter of Lombard, who clearly defined the 7 sacraments for the first time. What is interedting is that his enumeration (and e.g. exclusion of coronation) was immediately accept by virtually all in the West, and when there was contact with the East, they immediately recognized the same enumeration when they heard it. I think that is quite fascinating by itself

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: EO and Confession
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:27 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:30 am
Posts: 7681
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
Here is some information from the Orthodox Church in America on... The Sacrament of Confession.

This is from an on-line catechism of the Russian Orthodox Church... Penance.

_________________
Formerly: Greg.

- I try to have a little something for everybody in my posts. If you notice a spelling, grammar, or punctuation error... well... I put that in for you.

- I remember a lot of things. (Some of which actually happened.)

- Even the best of men may be born in times unsuited to their virtues.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 11 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to:  
cron