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 Post subject: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:17 pm 
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The Orthodox often talk about a "Eucharistic ecclesiology" - here for example (pdf file) - as does some Lutherans, with a basis in the 5th aritcle of the Augusburg Confession, which says that the Church is the "concregation of saints." My question is: is the idea of Eucharistic ecclesiology - with qualifications - possible withing Roman Catholicism?

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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:48 pm 
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Eucharistic Ecclesiology i not Catholic. It's heretical.

Click the link on my post here


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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:24 am 
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Just my 0,02$: Paul writes in 1. Cor. 10,16-17: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

Doesn't this imply some sort of Eucharistic ecclesiology? I know that the Catholic Church would have to make quite a few qualifications. But my question is: given those qualifications, is some sort of Eucharistic ecclesiology possible within the Catholic Church?

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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:47 am 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
Just my 0,02$: Paul writes in 1. Cor. 10,16-17: "The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread."

Doesn't this imply some sort of Eucharistic ecclesiology? I know that the Catholic Church would have to make quite a few qualifications. But my question is: given those qualifications, is some sort of Eucharistic ecclesiology possible within the Catholic Church?


That's like saying, "with some sort of qualification Sola Fide is possible within the Catholic Church." And then someone will quote that infamous word of Pope Benedict XVI saying that Luther's Sola Fide is right IF... And then we go on and on... and on.


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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:27 pm 
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You haven't exactly proven your point. I haven't seen a shred of 'evidence.' (Official papers and such.) And isn't it a fact that Cardinal Ratzinger - before he was elected pope - wrote about "eucharistic ecclesiology" in Called to Communion?

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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Is this what you mean? This is what HH, writing as Cardinal Ratzinger, said on the topic. Part I-2. is on Eucharistic Ecclesiology.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFECCV2.HTM

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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:04 pm 
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That helps. What I'm after is how the Catholic Church would use this term, as opposed to the Orthodox or the Lutherans.

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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
You haven't exactly proven your point. I haven't seen a shred of 'evidence.' (Official papers and such.) And isn't it a fact that Cardinal Ratzinger - before he was elected pope - wrote about "eucharistic ecclesiology" in Called to Communion?


Where is the discussion you have with the orthodox about eucharistic ecclesiology?

Or, where is the link where you heard about eucharistic ecclesionlogy?


Maybe from there I could show how you're being led to error.


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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
That helps. What I'm after is how the Catholic Church would use this term, as opposed to the Orthodox or the Lutherans.


In that link it's said that the concept/idea is originated from an Orthodox in opposition to us:

    In Orthodox theology the idea of Eucharistic ecclesiology was first expressed by exiled Russian theologians in opposition to the pretensions of Roman centralism. They affirmed that insofar as it possesses Christ entirely, every Eucharistic community is already, in se, the Church. Consequently, external unity with other communities is not a constitutive element of the Church.

Thus, it's not a traditional concept. It is an inovation.


We can't catholicized every new created heresy so it would fit into our theology (tho some people would say that post-conciliar Church did just that)


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 Post subject: Re: Eucharistic ecclesiology
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Vatican II taught that every diocese is, in some sense, "complete" insofar as it has valid Eucharist, a valid bishop, believers, and can perpetuate itself through the bishop consecrating priests and bishops. According to Vatican II, the Orthodox Churches are true Churches, in the technical sense, and are qualitatively different from religious organizations without valid episcopacy and sacraments. The latter - Protestants - Vatican II termed "ecclesial communities" as opposed to "churches."

Now to the basic point of "Eucharistic ecclesiology." I am no expert on Orthodoxy or Protestantism. But for a Catholic, it is clear that the Church is the Church that is assembled in Eucharistic worship. It is the Eucharist that forms the Church. Eucharist is what we do as Church. And without the celebration of Eucharist we would not be the Catholic Church. In this sense, there certainly is a Eucharistic ecclesiology in Catholicism.


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