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 Post subject: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:26 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Is the above "wrong"?

Source:
Thanks and praises to God both our Father and Mother, Who
created the havens and the earth Who separated the waters from
the land Who brought forth vegetables and fruit trees of every kind
Who spoke light into existence, who created creatures of the land
earth and sea, Who formed both men and women in your very own
image Endowing both with gifts and wisdom, strength and beauty
to be used for the perfecting of your kingdom. Our God we thank
you We thank you for the skills and gifts That you have freely given
to each of us While we pay particular attention to the varied and
abundant gifts of women among us Whose work, talent, sacrifice,
and wisdom often goes unnoticed and taken advantage of On this
day, we not only take notice, but we affirm, lift up, and loudly proclaim
the gifts of our women The strength of our teenaged daughters
The inquisitiveness of our little girls The wisdom of our grandmothers
and the necessity of each in order to live more fully into our humanity.
Precious Lord I thank you for the desires of my heart that you have
satisfied with good things, And the desires that I have not yet seen
satisfied. O God sometimes life gets me down and find it hard to
see things to be thankful for, Help me to be confident because of
the grace you have given to me in so many other ways That even
my unmet desires would be something I could be grateful for Amen
Thank you Jesus, Praise you Jesus

pg 31, Newsletter of Archdiocese of Vishakapatnam https://www.cbci.in/Newletter/Newletter3993939806.pdf

fwiw, this seems to be a "liberal"ish newsletter, the very next article quoting in pg 33 priests appearing to be relativist/indifferent.

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South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:25 am 
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God is not Father and Mother. The rest of it is unobjectionable.

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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:28 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Can you explain why "mother" should not be used?

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Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:38 am 
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Because God has not revealed Himself that way.

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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Can you explain in a "tougher" way, please, taking into account that God is neither male nor female, and female metaphors are used for God in the Bible?

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Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:36 am 
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'Father' and 'mother' are not metaphors in the same way as 'door' or 'Lamb.' They rather denote a relationship. God has not been 'impregnated' by another.

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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:44 am 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
God has not been 'impregnated' by another.

I genuinely fail to see your point - God hasn't "impregnated" anyone either.

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Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:31 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
God has not been 'impregnated' by another.

I genuinely fail to see your point - God hasn't "impregnated" anyone either.
Metaphorically, he has, if we mean by it 'given life.' God has given life but he has not himself 'been given life.'

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Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

“Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt.” — Paul Tillich

http://katolikken.wordpress.com/
English texts: http://katolikken.wordpress.com/tag/english-texts-2/

http://www.facebook.com/kjetilkringlebotten

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http://thecatholic.wordpress.com/


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:49 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
God has not been 'impregnated' by another.

I genuinely fail to see your point - God hasn't "impregnated" anyone either.

No?

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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:25 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Can you explain in a "tougher" way, please, taking into account that God is neither male nor female, and female metaphors are used for God in the Bible?


When the motherly analogies are used in scripture, they are only that... Analogies. However, God is directly called father. So, there even is a difference biblically. I am a father to my kids, but I also am like a mother in ways... especially when my wife is out of town. Same goes for my wife when I am out of town. She has to also have fatherly qualities to deal with certain situations. This is the reality of masculine and feminine being properly, but not exclusively, best modeled through fathers and mothers respectively. Men, in general, are symbols of the masculine, but certainly must exercise feminine qualities in certain situations. Same for women as properly symbols of the feminine.

So, what is revealed by scripture and tradition is that God has revealed himself as the Father, who, like any other father, is also like a mother hen at times when such is necessary. When He does this, he doesn't become a mother. The reason for this, as has been stated by others, is because of the ultimate symbolism that exists within those words. Fathers "give" and Mothers "receive" in their roles of procreation. Fathers are transcendent and Mothers are immanent in their relations with the family. Etc. These are powerful inherent symbols for humanity and confusing them causes major problems... not just for religion.

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:49 am 
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Is any of this mother-language-isn't-acceptable talk formal magisterial teaching? Or is this just the inferences being drawn by members here? Which is not, of course, to say that those inferences are incorrect. I'm just asking about the authority behind the arguments.

edit:

For full disclosure and transparency, I think "Father" language is more fitting given the headship issues with the husband/father. I don't put a lot of stock in the father giving life vs mother receiving life argument. This, to me, is where metaphysics is called metaphysics for a reason. You could have made that argument a few decades ago, and certainly centuries and millennia ago, but we know that's just not how it works. It makes for a nice analogy, sure, but it can't be used to speak to or sustain any ontological differences--at least, in my opinion. Nor is it necessary. Far more important that the giving/receiving life, from a natural law perspective, is the fact that the mother, by nature (i.e., biology and physiology), is more nurturing, spends more time with children, is more vulnerable, etc. Fathers are typically stronger, working to provide, defenders, etc. We all understand those roles, and I think those roles are truly natural, and those roles go to the Father/Mother analogy with respect to God. So when you combine the headship and role-of-the-father issues, I think you have strong reason to prefer "Father" language when speaking of God. Add to all that the very real cultural issues of the biblical audiences, and you have a still stronger case for the fittingness of generally male language when talking about God.

That said, I fail to see how male language and father language being more fitting and preferable thereby makes female and mother language unfitting or inappropriate. The Scriptures themselves, as we know, makes use of motherly analogies. Less than fatherly ones, but they are present nonetheless. So this strikes me, personally, as a matter of balance and agenda, not about the language in and of itself.

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:21 am 
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The closest thing to it I've found so far is http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... es_en.html

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Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: God, our Father and Mother
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:52 pm 
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https://www.catholicculture.org/culture ... ecnum=8279

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