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 Post subject: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:46 am 
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So in the OOR for last Saturday, the NAB text (sadly used for the LOH... :cry: ) notes that David "rose from his siesta" (Samuel 11:1-17?).

Siesta is a Spanish word, yes? (if not, then I retract wholly the entirety of this question)

Why in the world would it be in an OT passage? (I have a hard time believing Hebrew or Greek texts used Spanish to describe an afternoon nap... )


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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:54 am 
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It's an English word now, too. That said, it's a bit of a quirky choice, but then "a bit of a quirky choice" describes a lot of NAB translation choices.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:01 pm 
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The ESV comes a lot closer to what the Hebrew says: "It happened, late one afternoon, when David arose from his couch and was walking on the roof of the king’s house, that he saw from the roof a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful."

"Arose from his couch" is pretty much what the Hebrew has. "Rose from his siesta" is an interpretive reach, which, sadly, is not at all unique in the NAB (try Gen 1:2).

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:40 pm 
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That makes sense. A lot more than a Hebrew king saying "siesta". (Somehow it's funny to imagine)

The LOH wouldn't be so bad to me, but that it uses the NAB... That passage from Genesis is nearly as the stupidity it pulls with Is 7:14. :| :x


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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:53 pm 
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In Portuguese, it’s “Uma tarde em que [David] se levantara do leito ...”

Here, “leito” means bed, couch, berth, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Givi46 wrote:
That makes sense. A lot more than a Hebrew king saying "siesta". (Somehow it's funny to imagine)

The LOH wouldn't be so bad to me, but that it uses the NAB... That passage from Genesis is nearly as the stupidity it pulls with Is 7:14. :| :x

It's the source-critical typesetting that gets to me the most, where words, phrases, or whole sections show up [in brackets] so we know it's not in the Hebrew original. I don't care. It's disconcerting, jarring, and a distraction to devotional reading. Just print the reading that matches the Latin text and be done with it! But (as usual), no one asked me, and it's probably just as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:26 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
sections show up [in brackets] so we know it's not in the Hebrew original

Gonna be pedantic for a moment - we can't know that something is not in the Hebrew original since all we have for comparison is the Massora. Unless by "original" you mean "the source from which the thing was translated".

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:07 am 
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It's not in the Masoretic text.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Latin has a word for taking a siesta, or afternoon nap.

Meridio, meridiare, meridiavi, meridiatum

I like it because it comes from meridies (as in post meridiem). It is verbing noon! I am nooning now...

But in this place, it just says he rose from his couch afternoon...

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Givi46 wrote:
That makes sense. A lot more than a Hebrew king saying "siesta". (Somehow it's funny to imagine)

The LOH wouldn't be so bad to me, but that it uses the NAB... That passage from Genesis is nearly as the stupidity it pulls with Is 7:14. :| :x

It's the source-critical typesetting that gets to me the most, where words, phrases, or whole sections show up [in brackets] so we know it's not in the Hebrew original. I don't care. It's disconcerting, jarring, and a distraction to devotional reading. Just print the reading that matches the Latin text and be done with it! But (as usual), no one asked me, and it's probably just as well.


Did someone say DRC-Onlyism?

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:13 pm 
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No. Someone said that there is a time and place for source-criticism, and that isn't it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
No. Someone said that there is a time and place for source-criticism, and that isn't it.


I was hoping that tongue and cheek remark would be more of a catalyst for comparative strengths and weaknesses of different translations.

I have failed in my mission.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:27 pm 
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I just arose from my siesta and noted this thread.

Siesta is indeed jarring and, I hold, inappropriate. As it hold connotations in Spanish that do not exist in English. If siesta is appropriate, then why not riposo? The use of siesta strikes me a cute ... and that's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 pm 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
No. Someone said that there is a time and place for source-criticism, and that isn't it.


I was hoping that tongue and cheek remark would be more of a catalyst for comparative strengths and weaknesses of different translations.

I have failed in my mission.

Tongue-in-cheek can be hard to convey over teh interwebz.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:22 pm 
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This is an excellent example of why you should pick up a copy of the New American Bible Revised Edition first published in 2011. You are quoting the 1970 OT text.

The revised Old Testament currently in print says simply 'David arose from bed'

If you're going to complain about translations in the NAB, go ahead, but lets at least talk about the CURRENT text, not an obsolete, out of date text that is no longer in print.



By the way, the NABRE translation of Genesis 2:1 is virtually identical to the rendering of the same verse in the NRSV. This doesn't sound so much like a bad translation (every commentary I have consulted admits that 'a mighty wind' is a legitimate alternative translation) as it is a theological difference, i.e. that liberal theologians want to downplay any apparently Christian references in the OT, a suspicion that is confirmed for me by the fact that the NABRE translation of Genesis 1:2 is very similar to the translation of the verse in the New Jewish Publication Society translation of that verse. The NJPS Tanaka is a very useful resource in cases like this, to see where modern Jewish interpreters try to 'de-Christianize' the Old Testament, wherever there is a significant difference between the NJPS translation and a Christian translation the difference is probably the result of the Jewish translators trying to rebut Christian interpretations by carefully editing out the distinctively Christian language that is often used to in Christian translations of the OT.


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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Quote:
If you're going to complain about translations in the NAB, go ahead, but lets at least talk about the CURRENT text, not an obsolete, out of date text that is no longer in print.
He's praying the Liturgy of the Hours, which uses the old text and is still in print.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:40 am 
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I looked up 2 Samuel 11:2 in Spanish Bibles. Two of them use “siesta,” and another “lecho.”

You can expect “siesta” in Spanish bibles. And they don’t use old texts.

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 Post subject: Re: Spanish term in OT translation?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Quote:
If you're going to complain about translations in the NAB, go ahead, but lets at least talk about the CURRENT text, not an obsolete, out of date text that is no longer in print.
He's praying the Liturgy of the Hours, which uses the old text and is still in print.


Sadly.

:nooo:


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