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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Are you people serial?! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:31 am 
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Sabbath wrote:
Are you people serial?! :shock:

I don't understand the question. Are you asking whether or not it is OK to tell lies?

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:54 am 
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theJack wrote:

1. Regarding names, call people by their names. Unless you have some reason to argue that a person cannot change their name, which would be absurd, then call people by what they call themselves.


Exactly how far do we want to take this kind of principle? Suppose someone says their name is 'The Lord God Almighty', or demands to be addressed as 'My Lord Emperor of the World'? Because you know damn well that there are going to be people who are going to make exactly those kinds of demands just to see how far they can take it and how many people they can manage to piss off by making outrageous demands to be called by a particular name or title. There are a shockingly large number of people who post at 4Chan.


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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:06 am 
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Doom wrote:
Suppose someone says their name is 'The Lord God Almighty', or demands to be addressed as 'My Lord Emperor of the World'? Because you know damn well that there are going to be people who are going to make exactly those kinds of demands just to see how far they can take it and how many people they can manage to piss off by making outrageous demands to be called by a particular name or title.


fwiw, there are ordinary, given names which mean similar things. the dgp of my state is loknath behra, his given name means lord/master of the world. or mahesh, meaning great God.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:16 am 
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Is a name like that given in honor of God, or is it given in mockery of him?

In anglo culture, we don't give the name Jesus to our children. But I know some hispanics do give that name.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:36 am 
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Doom wrote:
theJack wrote:

1. Regarding names, call people by their names. Unless you have some reason to argue that a person cannot change their name, which would be absurd, then call people by what they call themselves.


Exactly how far do we want to take this kind of principle? Suppose someone says their name is 'The Lord God Almighty', or demands to be addressed as 'My Lord Emperor of the World'? Because you know damn well that there are going to be people who are going to make exactly those kinds of demands just to see how far they can take it and how many people they can manage to piss off by making outrageous demands to be called by a particular name or title. There are a shockingly large number of people who post at 4Chan.

We take it where it is reasonable. There are certain things that, by convention, we simply understand are not names. There are certain things that clearly are. There are gray areas. And while gray areas really are gray and there may be some tough calls on this or that case, I'm reminded of something PED said years ago -- just because I may not know whether or not a virus is alive doesn't mean that I don't know that a horse is and a rock isn't. "My Lord Emperor of the World" isn't a name. If someone thinks it is, have them go to court and have their name so legally changed. It won't happen. If John wants his name changed to Jane, there probably aren't any courts in the country that would forbid it. In short, let's not make a few possibly difficult cases in applying common sense allow us to throw common sense out the window entirely.

Also, to take into account Jack's comment just above, there is also the matter of naming conventions themselves. While you can find stories of people who flout the conventions (some pull it off, legally; other's get shot down by the courts), the fact that such stories are so easily identifiable are the exceptions that prove the rule. But those conventions are relative to the culture, and different cultures have different conventions. Who, today, would name their kid, "Who is like God?" Well my mother gave me that as a middle name (Michael, as I'm sure you already know). So, by convention, "Michael" is a perfectly legitimate name that in its original language means "Who is like God?" But even in Hebrew there were and are conventions of what constitutes a name and what doesn't. I bet almost nobody would be able to list those conventional rules in a meaningful way, but everyone recognizes, within the contexts of their own cultures, what constitute real names and what don't vs those that are really, really weird and are just pushing the boundaries. Different cultures, different conventions. And as it applies to this conversation, again, some dude wants to legally change his name to Jane, then that's what you call him. That's his name whether you like it or not. He wants to change his name to "God Almighty Who Must Be Worshiped Upon The Pain Of Death And Eternal Torment You Know This Is Funny That I Can Make My Name Whatever I Want JaJaJaJaJaJa Hey Look Funny Spanish Reference In My English Name I Am Such A Troll" -- well, as my brother says, he can go kick rocks. That's not a name. You know it. I know it. He knows it. And that's the end of it. He can just be John, or if he wants a weird name, Apple or Blanket are just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:27 am 
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In high school days, I had a friend whose mom was a sheriff. One day, she helped transport a man to court so he could change his name. (I don't know why the sheriff took a man to court for a name change. I didn't ask. But I'm fairly confident that the friend who told me this story about his mom was telling the truth.) He was taking the name Coke Is It. Evidently, the mom called him "Mr. It" during their interactions. Coke Is It. Now there's a great name. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:39 am 
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gherkin wrote:
Is a name like that given in honor of God, or is it given in mockery of him?

Good point.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:43 am 
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gherkin wrote:
Is a name like that given in honor of God, or is it given in mockery of him?

In anglo culture, we don't give the name Jesus to our children. But I know some hispanics do give that name.

I grew up in the Los Angeles area and had many Hispanic friends. My wife was born and raised in a Christian family in a lilly white rural part of the Pacific Northwest. In her early 20's she moved to Southern California for a job and we met. Once we were in an L.A. area fast food restaurant and my wife noticed the cashiers name tag, "Jesus". She whispered to me, "Can they do that?"

It was hard to stifle my laugh. :D

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Had a guy work for me -- Jesse. Good guy. Which is often used in Hispano communities as a nickname for Jesus.

BTW, I'd generally avoid anybody who fits into most of the naming and pronouning and titling categories above. My read is that they are frequently looking for the opportunity to have a conniption fit because you have offended them in some way. It gets back to the tolerance versus celebration phenomenon. And, you know, you don't have to interact with someone who is trying to lay their agenda on your plate.

Friends? I'd have to deal with it on a case by case basis.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Sabbath wrote:
Are you people serial?! :shock:


I cannot speak for the rest, but I certainly don't think anyone would ever wish to watch more than one episode of me.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:27 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
Is a name like that given in honor of God, or is it given in mockery of him?

In anglo culture, we don't give the name Jesus to our children. But I know some hispanics do give that name.

My name is not given in our culture?Huh?

Last I checked, Joshua (in Spanish Jésus, in Greek Ιεσους) is a popular name!

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:41 pm 
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I'm referring to the names as particular words. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:13 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
I'm referring to the names as particular words. :fyi:

Well that raises a question as to what is a word..... or a name... I wish we had the term vox, vocis in English!

In anycase, I wonder how the first woman to be named Ashley or Madison or any number of male names was treated, or was it simply that the ignorance of their parents was on account of a new rarity of the name?

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Aubrey is a big deal as a girl's name now, but it is actually a boy's name (short for Auberon/Oberon, derived from Alberich).

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Oh, and while my original post as a little tongue in cheek, the question of what counts as "a word" is not without merit. E.g., does bat referring to a stick and bat referring to a flying mammal count as one or two words? You might say two, as they are wholly equivocal. But what about banal and banal, meaning the exact same thing, but sounding quite different (or route and route). They are different voces (words) prima facie, but refer to the same thing. What about, and I am quite serious, is and is ? Is meaning a predicating of substance versus say is used to predicate a quality? They too are equivocal, but equivocal by reason.

And is is and were two words? Have and has?

Is Ana and Anna the same name?Or Hannah? How about Iosue and Iesus in Latin, which would be analogous to Joshua and Jesus in English, but we translate both as Joshua sometimes....

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:48 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Aubrey is a big deal as a girl's name now, but it is actually a boy's name (short for Auberon/Oberon, derived from Alberich).


Kelly was a boy's name... then, in the 50/60's it migrated over as a girl's name. When I was a kid I HATED my name because I only knew boys named Kelly.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:58 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Aubrey is a big deal as a girl's name now, but it is actually a boy's name (short for Auberon/Oberon, derived from Alberich).


Kelly was a boy's name... then, in the 50/60's it migrated over as a girl's name. When I was a kid I HATED my name because I only knew boys named Kelly.


Good thing no girl has my name :)

Think about people who are named "Clap" or "Smile". :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:15 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Aubrey is a big deal as a girl's name now, but it is actually a boy's name (short for Auberon/Oberon, derived from Alberich).


Kelly was a boy's name... then, in the 50/60's it migrated over as a girl's name. When I was a kid I HATED my name because I only knew boys named Kelly.


Good thing no girl has my name :)

Think about people who are named "Clap" or "Smile". :fyi:

Or Echo, or any of the other ridiculous names kids are getting these days.

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 Post subject: Re: gay people
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:31 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Aubrey is a big deal as a girl's name now, but it is actually a boy's name (short for Auberon/Oberon, derived from Alberich).


Kelly was a boy's name... then, in the 50/60's it migrated over as a girl's name. When I was a kid I HATED my name because I only knew boys named Kelly.


Good thing no girl has my name :)

Think about people who are named "Clap" or "Smile". :fyi:

Or Echo, or any of the other ridiculous names kids are getting these days.

Fox.

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