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 Post subject: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Journeyman
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someone called in or wrote in on Fox News this morning asking Cardinal Dolan about excommunication

the caller said that that action is "severe" and asked if there are other punishments.. I mean "options" for politicians claiming to be Catholic who promote abortion

Why do Catholics (so called) seem to want to skip over the excommunication option? Dolan certainly does. That guy looks about as Catholic as my friend's parrot (whom I believe is no longer with us)


too severe?

all it means is Don't take Communion

people who are in mortal sin can still go to Holy Mass, but cannot take Eucharist. I doubt Cuomo has taken Communion much in the last few yrs anyway.

severe?

wait until you get to Purgatory, you who think no one should be purged (certainly not painfully) assuming you are even going THERE.. Jesus said few make it to Heaven . The saints say VERY very few for adults.. but what I am trying to get at right now is that Purgatory has been described as "excrutiating"

which is kind of like "severe"


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:02 pm 
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That post is inaccurate in important aspects. https://www.catholicworldreport.com/201 ... tion-acts/

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That post is inaccurate in important aspects. https://www.catholicworldreport.com/201 ... tion-acts/



no it isn't


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:48 pm 
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The issue isn't excommunication is 'too severe' the issue is that there is no precedent for excommunication politicians based on the positions they take, excommunincation is generally reserved for theologians and members of the clergy and is rare used against laymen.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Journeyman
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Doom wrote:
The issue isn't excommunication is 'too severe' the issue is that there is no precedent for excommunication politicians based on the positions they take, excommunincation is generally reserved for theologians and members of the clergy and is rare used against laymen.

i really dont care what is "rarely" done in the Church these days since (generally speaking) it looks like the Church is rarely even Catholic anymore

I don't know why Fox News doesn't get some other "Catholic" person to comment on this stuff.

Why don't they get Cardinal Burke? He is a true Catholic who accepts being persecuted for the Faith


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:07 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That post is inaccurate in important aspects. https://www.catholicworldreport.com/201 ... tion-acts/



no it isn't

Your post is. That link isn't. To start with, you are wrong in your definition of excommunication.

BTW, the core issue is that Cuomo et al. haven't done anything that qualifies under canon law for excommunication (when that word is used in its proper sense).

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That post is inaccurate in important aspects. https://www.catholicworldreport.com/201 ... tion-acts/



no it isn't

Your post is. That link isn't. To start with, you are wrong in your definition of excommunication.

BTW, the core issue is that Cuomo et al. haven't done anything that qualifies under canon law for excommunication (when that word is used in its proper sense).

promoting abortion is a mortal sin

and anyone who commits ANY mortal sin is automatically excommunicated. It is called a (not sure of spelling) latae sententae excommunication

If abortion promoting politicians were publicly chastised with a formal excommunication, it would tell the whole world that Abortion is what it in fact is: murder

instead we get these wimpy discussions about how the Church "might not particularly condone" it

and so the world thinks "Well, even those Catholics don't really believe abortion is actual murder.."



and more blood is shed.


Last edited by flyingaway on Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:15 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
and anyone who commits ANY mortal sin is automatically excommunicated. It is called a (not sure of spelling) latae sententae excommunication


That is simply not true. There are specific offenses in Canon Law for which excommunication is the prescribed offense. But by no means is it "ANY mortal sin".

I'm far from an expert in Canon Law, but even I know that.

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Last edited by Speed Racer on Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Sorry, but that's not how it works. Again, you demonstrate that you don't understand what excommunication is. Hint: It's not "Don't take Communion."

Cuomo et al. should be denied communion (as Dr. Peters argues in that article), although in fact Cuomo is already not going to communion because he's in an invalid marriage.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:16 pm 
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Journeyman
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Speed Racer wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
and anyone who commits ANY mortal sin is automatically excommunicated. It is called a (not sure of spelling) latae sententae excommunication


That is simply not true.

it simply IS


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Journeyman
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Speed Racer wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
and anyone who commits ANY mortal sin is automatically excommunicated. It is called a (not sure of spelling) latae sententae excommunication


That is simply not true. There are specific offenses in Canon Law for which excommunication is the prescribed offense. But by no means is it "ANY mortal sin".

I'm far from an expert in Canon Law, but even I know that.

you a re not an expert on what constitutes mortal sin, that is for sure


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Again, you demonstrate that you don't understand what excommunication is. Hint: It's not "Don't take Communion."

iage.


OK, it's You can't take Communion
You shouldn't take Communion

whatever


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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Look, I'm calling your bluff. You MUST NOT post as an expert on canon law and moral theology when you are no such thing, and I will ask the board administration to enforce this.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:24 pm 
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Excommunication is different from telling someone they are not allowed to receive communion. It is a lot more than that. Recall that Elizabeth I was excommunicated and that this released her subjects from the obligation to follow her rule. A monarch committing a mortal sin would not absolve their subjects from following their rule, but it would mean they weren't allowed to receive communion.

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 Post subject: Re: excommunication is "too severe" for baby killers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:49 pm 
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A person distributing Communion cannot refuse it to someone whom he believes is in mortal sin, except as noted below; the onus in general is on the person receiving not to do so.

    Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.

So there are three exceptions in which a person can be refused Communion:

1) a person who has been excommunicated;
2) a person under interdict (not much used anymore);
3) a person who obstinately persists in manifest grave sin.

If you think Cuomo qualifies under (3), I agree (as does the author of the article I linked), but note that this is a category distinct from excommunication.

All this (and more) is in the linked article.

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