Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 4   [ 63 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Communion in Hand
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:29 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:50 pm
Posts: 2042
Location: Diocese of Baker, Oregon
In light of the topic I started in the Pub in regards to the rainbow sash group doing very bad acts this last sunday. I have read over and over again that communion in hand should be abolished. I myself do not recieve in the hand.

From what I understand, communion in the hand is a relatively new thing and it has always been on the tongue.

My question is why was it changed to allow for both? Quite frankly I see no positives from allowing communion in the hand, but would like to hear the reasoning behind it.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:43 pm 
Offline
Middle Management
Middle Management
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 28911
Location: Sacred Heart of Jesus
Religion: Catholic
Quote:
My question is why was it changed to allow for both? Quite frankly I see no positives from allowing communion in the hand, but would like to hear the reasoning behind it.


RJ, I have been saying this for years. I have asked people time and again what benefits we have received from allowing this practice. There have been no benefits from what I have seen.

I believe that this practice originated as an abuse and eventually was legalized. The popes did come out against it but in the end it was legalized, although it is still only an indult and can be revoked by any Bishop in his own diocese.

The reasons behind it are most likely that the priest receives on his hand and after VII there were many movements to erase the distinction between priest and laity, hence the need for the laity to receive on the hand also.

_________________
Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:46 pm 
Offline
4-H Superstar
4-H Superstar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 17515
Location: Poke-A-Nose
Religion: Catholic
From Catholic Answers:

The Congregation of the Sacraments and Divine Worship permitted the U.S. Bishops’ Conference to authorize reception of Communion in the hand on July 25, 1977, provided the local bishop implements the practice in his diocese. Once implemented, the option to receive Communion either in the hand or on the tongue always remains with the communicant. No priest, deacon, acolyte, or extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may refuse a communicant Communion on the tongue. Likewise, once the local bishop has introduced Communion in the hand, none may refuse a communicant Communion in the hand (except when Communion is being given by intinction, in which case it must be given on the tongue).

http://www.catholic.com/library/who_can ... munion.asp

So, this practice was allowed in 1977. Back then I was still in school and we were never given the option until several years later. I still think the practice should be abolished, given what happened on ebay.

_________________
Dawn (proud right-wing homeschooling extremist ) :D

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:52 pm 
Offline
Head Administrator
Head Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:24 am
Posts: 72869
Location: Music City
Religion: Catholic
I receive in the hand because that's how I was taught when I converted. I had always seen people receive on the tongue, so I was a bit confused. I always check my hand for crumbs, and I rarely fail to find one or two, unless Fr. uses the round bite-sized hosts.

Siggy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:32 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:28 am
Posts: 2139
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Rome Sweet Home
i know some ministers who are not excited to have saliva all over their hands. not saying it's a legit answer but one that i've heard.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 4:53 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28975
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
GoodSamaritan wrote:
i know some ministers who are not excited to have saliva all over their hands. not saying it's a legit answer but one that i've heard.

That doesn't happen. (at my college all kneel and receive on tongue and I have yet to see a priest accidently put his hand in a mouth. They just place it on the tongue)

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:21 pm
Posts: 2630
Religion: Catholic
my father, who is a Eucharistic minister told me just recently that he doesn't like to put the host on someone's tongue

I asked him why and he said because he is afraid it will be dropped
so I asked him if they brought back patens, would that be ok? he said yes

and I agree, if you receive by mouth rather than hand, I think they should bring back the patens
and, I'm all for that...and the rail...we SHOULD be kneeling for such a wonderful thing rather than being rushed through like a bunch of cattle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:01 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28975
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Buannan wrote:
my father, who is a Eucharistic minister told me just recently that he doesn't like to put the host on someone's tongue

He is a priest?!

Oh you mean Extraordinary minister of holy communion (nit pickin' on titles, mea culpa ;))
Quote:
I asked him why and he said because he is afraid it will be dropped
so I asked him if they brought back patens, would that be ok? he said yes

and I agree, if you receive by mouth rather than hand, I think they should bring back the patens

They are already REQUIRED. Like anyone cares
Quote:
and, I'm all for that...and the rail...we SHOULD be kneeling for such a wonderful thing rather than being rushed through like a bunch of cattle
Agreed

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:19 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:21 pm
Posts: 2630
Religion: Catholic
sorry..they call them Eucharistic ministers in his parish
and, as I am not one, I've never paid attention to the titles


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:25 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:28 am
Posts: 2139
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Rome Sweet Home
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
GoodSamaritan wrote:
i know some ministers who are not excited to have saliva all over their hands. not saying it's a legit answer but one that i've heard.

That doesn't happen. (at my college all kneel and receive on tongue and I have yet to see a priest accidently put his hand in a mouth. They just place it on the tongue)


so they're making it up? :roll:

it's easy to see how that happens, IMO.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:27 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:41 pm
Posts: 11415
Location: The Deep Fried South
Religion: disillusioned
GoodSamaritan wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
GoodSamaritan wrote:
i know some ministers who are not excited to have saliva all over their hands. not saying it's a legit answer but one that i've heard.

That doesn't happen. (at my college all kneel and receive on tongue and I have yet to see a priest accidently put his hand in a mouth. They just place it on the tongue)


so they're making it up? :roll:

it's easy to see how that happens, IMO.


If it is happening (and I don't know one way or the other), a simple solution to that problem is proper instruction in how to receive on the tongue.

_________________
Image

Even though my life is falling apart at the seams ... I find comfort in the fact that I'm not a stripper.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:27 pm 
Offline
Head Administrator
Head Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:24 am
Posts: 72869
Location: Music City
Religion: Catholic
Maybe they just need to learn how to do it properly?

Siggy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:47 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:28 am
Posts: 2139
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Rome Sweet Home
you mean actually TEACHING?? hmmm. a novel solution but it just might work!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:49 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:41 pm
Posts: 11415
Location: The Deep Fried South
Religion: disillusioned
GoodSamaritan wrote:
you mean actually TEACHING?? hmmm. a novel solution but it just might work!


I know it is a weird idea and a concept that is new to many ... but you're right. It may work! :D

_________________
Image

Even though my life is falling apart at the seams ... I find comfort in the fact that I'm not a stripper.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:53 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28975
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Buannan wrote:
sorry..they call them Eucharistic ministers in his parish
and, as I am not one, I've never paid attention to the titles

Eucharist means both the Communion and the Sacrifice. No laity can be said to excercise the Eucharistic ministry, not even a deacon. Furthermore, only deacons, priests and bishops are ordinary ministers of Holy Communion. Laity should be used rarely and only with serious reason (admits to not having seen a EHMC used in months so it is easy to dismiss them as an encroachment on the priest's role)

Thinks about how we had 1400 people at Mass and 4 priests distributing, with all communicants kneeling and how it took 15 minutes

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:00 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:21 pm
Posts: 2630
Religion: Catholic
my father's parish has one priest (and an elderly one at that)...one mass in English and one in Spanish on Sunday (said by a visiting priest)...no Sat nite vigil

quite frankly, being a small town in Utah, they are probably lucky to have a Catholic church there at all...although it is still considered a mission (it's been there for over 50 years) so the Jesuits service it

I think they are blessed to have someone that is able to assist the priest

not everyone is fortunate enough to have deacons or assistant pastors


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:03 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28975
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Buannan wrote:
my father's parish has one priest (and an elderly one at that)...one mass in English and one in Spanish on Sunday (said by a visiting priest)...no Sat nite vigil

quite frankly, being a small town in Utah, they are probably lucky to have a Catholic church there at all...although it is still considered a mission (it's been there for over 50 years) so the Jesuits service it

I think they are blessed to have someone that is able to assist the priest

not everyone is fortunate enough to have deacons or assistant pastors

There is no need to have very short Masses if there are only two Masses, Communion can take longer. 15 minutes with 4 and only 4 priests distributing (one was Cardinal Dulles, who moves with a cane) at an altar rail with 1400 communicants. After seeing that, I am a hard case to sell on any real necessity of EHMC's

And as I said, I was nit pickin'

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:07 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:21 pm
Posts: 2630
Religion: Catholic
short masses?

he needs help to be able to offer both the body and blood

this has nothing to do with time

anyway...no biggie
I see the necessity
you don't

such is life


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:25 pm 
Online
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:26 am
Posts: 100575
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
OTOH, offering communion to the faithful under both species is not a requirement unless the bishop has deemed it so (as mine has)

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 6:45 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:34 pm
Posts: 28975
Location: Sine Domum
Religion: Roman Catholic
Buannan wrote:
short masses?

he needs help to be able to offer both the body and blood

[103.] The norms of the Roman Missal admit the principle that in cases where Communion is administered under both kinds, “the Blood of the Lord may be received either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon”.[191] As regards the administering of Communion to lay members of Christ’s faithful, the Bishops may exclude Communion with the tube or the spoon where this is not the local custom, though the option of administering Communion by intinction always remains. If this modality is employed, however, hosts should be used which are neither too thin nor too small, and the communicant should receive the Sacrament from the Priest only on the tongue.[192]

[104.] The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.

Redemptionis Sacramentum

Furthermore, it cannot be required where such would necessitate an EHMC (I am in LA for goodness sake and at my college we receive only one species. As we have had many Cardinals (including Arinze) celebrate, it seems that it is legit not to give both, in spit of Card. Mahony's "requirement". He himself has celebrated at our college giving communion to kneelers suprisingly enough...)

Quote:
this has nothing to do with time

anyway...no biggie
I see the necessity
you don't

such is life


Actually

10. The faithful, whether religious or lay, who are authorized as extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist can distribute Communion only when there is no priest, deacon or acolyte, when the priest is impeded by illness or advanced age, or when the number of the faithful going to Communion is so large as to make the celebration of Mass excessively long.(20) Accordingly, a reprehensible attitude is shown by those priests who, though present at the celebration, refrain from distributing Communion and leave the task to the laity.

No mention of distributing both species as valid reason

Inaestimabile Donum

_________________
Quoniam sapientia aperuit os mutorum, et linguas infantium fecit disertas.

http://stomachosus-thomistarum.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 4   [ 63 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


Jump to: