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 Post subject: Meaning of 1Cor. 11:28-30?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 11:23 am 
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Doesn?t 1Cor. 11:28-30, where is says that one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats judgment upon himself, mean that one must believe that the Eucharist really is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ? Isn?t it more than just confessing your sins before receiving Communion? If so, is there any historical and Scriptural evidence that supports one must believe it is really Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of 1Cor. 11:28-30?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:01 pm 
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Victor wrote:
Doesn?t 1Cor. 11:28-30, where is says that one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats judgment upon himself, mean that one must believe that the Eucharist really is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ?

Isn?t it more than just confessing your sins before receiving Communion?


I may be misunderstanding you but let me make a stab at this...
To me, I don't think 1 Cor 11:28-30 means that one must believe.. I think that's an inaccurate prooftext. I think John 6:48+ makes the case that one must believe that the Eucharist is really Christ's body/blood/soul/divinity.
1 Cor 11 discusses the manner in which one must present himself to receive the Eucharist. In my mind, it makes the assumption already that the Eucharist is Christ, therefore, one must make certain that he is worthy to receive..

Don't forget about 1 Cor 11:27 as well, because that's important. Here's the NKJV rendition:
Quote:
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


As to your second question, I'm not sure how you're trying to fit that in.
What exactly are you asking?
Catholics have to "examine" themselves prior to receiving the Host (Can I receive today? Can I not receive today? Have I sinned? Do I need to go to confession? Have I been to confession? Have I receive absolution? etc. etc... that kind of thing). After having "examined" one's self, if he determines that he is not worthy to receive, then he must go to confession in order to make himself worthy again.

This is all based on the presupposition that the Eucharist is the real Christ.. body/blood/soul/divinity. If one does not already believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, then I don't see what difference it makes for him to determine if he's worthy to receive. Worthy to receive what? A piece of bread? Examination of conscience and confession seem wholelistically unnecessary in that case.

I don't know if that's answering your question, though.


Quote:
If so, is there any historical and Scriptural evidence that supports one must believe it is really Christ in the Eucharist.

Thanks.


As I mentioned before, I think John 6:48-58 answers that question.

Again, from the NKJV:
Quote:
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?"

53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever."


Hope that helps.
Maybe you can reclarify the connection you're trying to make with confession and examination of conscience and 1 Cor 11.


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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of 1Cor. 11:28-30?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:46 am 
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Victor wrote:
If so, is there any historical and Scriptural evidence that supports one must believe it is really Christ in the Eucharist.


On the night He was betrayed, Christ took bread, broke it, and gave it to His disciples, saying: "This is My Body."

What more do you need?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:09 am 
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yeah-like pax said---he believe Jesus was eating himself---right there in front of everyone---

that is what the jewish seder is all about---didnt you know that? :roll:

NOT.

a jewish seder has 3 matzoh in a bag---the middle one is broken----this 'REPRESENTS' Christs body on the cross---

obviously, JESUS was showing his disciples ----that JESUS---the passover HIMSELF, was going to be broken on the cross---

it is not a command to EAT HIM....

very easy....

funny how that is read literally===but all else is 'MYSTICISM"/symbolic?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 8:34 am 
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Mark has been kicked from this thread.

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