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 Post subject: wedding in a church, not allowed outside
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:44 am 
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I have read thru cannon 1118 with this, and i do not understand the strong need or command in this. My fiancee is very upset here, please explain to me why this is such a problem and we can not have an outdoor wedding.

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 Post subject: Re: wedding in a church, not allowed outside
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:47 am 
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revprodeji wrote:
I have read thru cannon 1118 with this, and i do not understand the strong need or command in this. My fiancee is very upset here, please explain to me why this is such a problem and we can not have an outdoor wedding.


Because that is the place where Sacraments are celebrated. There would need to be an extraordinary need for this to be suspended.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:59 am 
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It can be done if a dispensation is granted by your bishop; however, I wouldn't count on one. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

Digz

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 Post subject: Re: wedding in a church, not allowed outside
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:06 pm 
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revprodeji wrote:
I have read thru cannon 1118 with this, and i do not understand the strong need or command in this. My fiancee is very upset here, please explain to me why this is such a problem and we can not have an outdoor wedding.


There's really no need to understand why C.1118 says what it says. That's the law. I think forumjunkie's response is right on key, though.

Don't worry too much about it, though. You can probably get whatever you want in the States because bishops routinely ignore all kinds of laws, rules, and regulations. For example, if you're in Boston, contact the Paulist Center and they'll probably do your wedding at a water theme park if you so desire.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:15 pm 
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Sacraments can be done anywhere in an emergency, but if you are planning your wedding in advance it probably is not an emergency. For non-emergency administration of Sacraments, there are laws to keep people from abusing the liturgy. And why wouldn't you want to be married in the Lord's house... with the candels and tapestries. It is a joyous occasion best celebrated "at home."

:) Dana

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm 
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btw... is your fiancee Catholic?


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 Post subject: Re: wedding in a church, not allowed outside
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:40 pm 
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revprodeji wrote:
I have read thru cannon 1118 with this, and i do not understand the strong need or command in this. My fiancee is very upset here, please explain to me why this is such a problem and we can not have an outdoor wedding.


Canon Law says it has to be in the parish church. It can also be in a suitable place or even outside, if the local bishop gives permission.

I can imagine that late Pope John Paul II could marry couples outside the Vatican Basilica - in the open area - St. Peter's Square, of course.

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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:45 pm 
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If this presents a problem, perhaps you could make arrangements to have meet the priest the day prior, bring along 2 witnesses and the marriage license and perform a Sacramental Marriage.

Then the next day, go ahead and have a Justice of the Peace in the park with all the guests and such.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:47 pm 
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Or do it the other way around...

forget about the Church laws and go do the JP thing in the park and then go get the marriage blessed afterwards.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
(not really suggesting that course of action, though)


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:49 pm 
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lilder wrote:
Sacraments can be done anywhere in an emergency, but if you are planning your wedding in advance it probably is not an emergency. For non-emergency administration of Sacraments, there are laws to keep people from abusing the liturgy. And why wouldn't you want to be married in the Lord's house... with the candels and tapestries. It is a joyous occasion best celebrated "at home."

:) Dana


It's not just that, but the whole mega-parish phenomena in our country has helped us lose the fact that all liturgies (even weddings) are public celebrations for the local community. And the local community gathers at Church. If your community knows you are getting married, they should know where to find you to celebrate with you. If you have it in a place other than the normal meeting spot, then that makes this difficult. They would need a special invitation to attend this liturgy, which is techincally not appropriate. Typically, people honor the social norm that a wedding is invite only, but this is only social invention. In reality it is a public celebration for the parish, and such celebrations should occur where people gather for the sacraments.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:45 pm 
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Or do it the other way around...

forget about the Church laws and go do the JP thing in the park and then go get the marriage blessed afterwards.


Friends of mine did that, and it worked out fine. I understand a lot of priests are a tad skittish about allowing couples to read their own vows in church. A pretty fair number of Catholics go for the double marriage option nowadays.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:53 pm 
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A pretty fair number of Catholics don't even care about doing what's proper in any case.

Next thing you know, they'll start trying to confess sins yet to be committed...
it's ludicrous.
I think if I were a priest and a "Catholic" couple in my parish pulled a stunt like getting married on top of the Empire State Building and then came back afterwards to have the wedding blessed, I think I'd bless them out and tell them to find another priest to do it.

But y'know... that's what American Catholics seem to be so fond of these days... A selfish culture doesn't really seem to jive with Catholicism.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 7:21 pm 
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I think if I were a priest and a "Catholic" couple in my parish pulled a stunt like getting married on top of the Empire State Building and then came back afterwards to have the wedding blessed, I think I'd bless them out and tell them to find another priest to do it.


Some priests might do that, but some might prefer to have a simple dignified wedding blessing in church with a handful of attendees, instead of a large, mixed bag of religious and irreligious , catholic and noncatholic, and perhaps even some sacreligious partygoers inside his building.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Brendan wrote:
If this presents a problem, perhaps you could make arrangements to have meet the priest the day prior, bring along 2 witnesses and the marriage license and perform a Sacramental Marriage.

Then the next day, go ahead and have a Justice of the Peace in the park with all the guests and such.


You're actually not allowed to do that.
I read about that in the Catechism...I don't remember the section, but it explicitly says that you can't have two separate weddings like that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:15 pm 
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Digz wrote:
It can be done if a dispensation is granted by your bishop; however, I wouldn't count on one. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

Digz


This is correct, it can be done, I've known a few who have done this. One thing to take into consideration however is that it takes a long time (months) to be granted a dispensation. Check with your parish Priest about what is required for this request.


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:52 am 
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Kates wrote:
Brendan wrote:
If this presents a problem, perhaps you could make arrangements to have meet the priest the day prior, bring along 2 witnesses and the marriage license and perform a Sacramental Marriage.

Then the next day, go ahead and have a Justice of the Peace in the park with all the guests and such.


You're actually not allowed to do that.
I read about that in the Catechism...I don't remember the section, but it explicitly says that you can't have two separate weddings like that.

What is not allowed is two religious services in which marital consent is given. A religious ceremony and a civil one is allowed (and even required in some countries!). In the USA, despite the frequent mantra of separation of church and state, the religious minister, priest, rabbi … who witnesses a wedding is also functioning as an agent of the state (at least in most states, since such marriage questions are state rather than federal matters).

The prohibition on two religious ceremonies is contained in the canon below. Note that when the civil ceremony precedes the Catholic ceremony, the Church does not consider the couple married until after the religious ceremony.
The 1983 Code of Canon Law wrote:
Can. 1127 §1 The provisions of can. 1108 are to be observed in regard to the form to be used in a mixed marriage. If, however, the catholic party contracts marriage with a non-Catholic party of oriental rite, the canonical form of celebration is to be observed for lawfulness only; for validity, however, the intervention of a sacred minister is required, while observing the other requirements of law.

§2 If there are grave difficulties in the way of observing the canonical form, the local Ordinary of the catholic party has the right to dispense from it in individual cases, having however consulted the Ordinary of the place of the celebration of the marriage; for validity, however, some public form of celebration is required. It is for the Episcopal Conference to establish norms whereby this dispensation may be granted in a uniform manner.

§3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with §1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-Catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.




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