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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:13 am 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Persephone, wonderfully and succintly put

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:15 am 
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ErikB wrote:
Exactly. It's not spelled out that women can't be priests just as it isn't spelled out that they can. Why was the decision made that because it wasn't mentioned that it shouldn't be allowed?

Please don't take offense to any of this. I am just trying to learn.


Erika,

The two priestly functions are saying Mass (the Eucharist) and hearing confessions.

In both those cases, Christ gave that Authority to the Apostles ( Last Supper for the Eucharist and John 20:23 for Confession).

Christ could have most certainly had Mary Magdelene or His Mother Mary, or any other female disciples with Him when he gave that Authority.

As such it only went to the Apostles. And the Apostles only then granted that Authority to males.

Why this is we do not know, but have to accept. The Catholic Church cannot make up things, it has to follow what was taught and to faithfully pass that on to future generations. If Christ or the Apostles did not give the Church the Authority, the Church must assume it cannot.

The most talked about reason for an all male priesthood is based on God's sense of Equality and the Complementary roles of male and female.


Humans are made of two 'parts' the Body and Spirt, Biology and Ontology

God created females to bear Life Biologically. This is plain to see and no proclaimation of the Church will allow males to bear children. The Church does not have the Authority to change God's design for Biology.

Males have the ability to bear life Ontologically, via the Eucharist and Absolution. Each sex brings with it the necessary complements for Eternal Life. The female brings forth new life biologically and nurtures it biologically. The male brings forth new Life Ontologically and provides ontologically nutrition.

In this way, God uses male and female equally to bring new souls into existance and into Eternal Life. Equal and complementary

The Church has no more Authority to declare females have the ability to bring forth the Eucharist and Absolve than it would have to declare that men may bear children and nurse. If the Pope tried to declare that, we would call him a major nutcase, so why not the same of Ontology?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:32 pm 
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Erika? :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:37 pm 
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There are no women priests becuase it is a teaching that cannot be changed:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful. (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:47 pm 
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From Inter insignores:

Quote:
Only a baptized man receives sacred ordination. The Lord Jesus chose men to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.


Here's some good reading material and welcome to the boards!

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... p0001.html

http://home.nyc.rr.com/mysticalrose/ordain.html

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a51.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:51 pm 
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And EricB (c'mon Brendan! :P ), do remember that just because women can't be priests doesn't mean that women are of no value to God (or any other such nonsense that some ignorant people will spout off). Women have a purpose that does not include the priesthood...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:02 pm 
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EricB? :)

I kid, I kid. Just a pet peeve of mine.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:43 pm 
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ErikB wrote:
EricB? :)

I kid, I kid. Just a pet peeve of mine.


Good gravy!!! My bad. Sorry ERIKB. I will write it 100 times tonight as punishment!!! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:01 am 
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ErikB, now that we've established the correct way to spell your name, what do you think of the responses you've been given to why the Catholic Church ordains only men? Have the responses helped you to have a clearer understanding of the tradition?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:49 pm 
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ErikB wrote:
Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?


if He did not allow for the most qualified woman to be a priest in His Church, how could any other woman believe they should be allowed in that role.... did we see our Lady arguing with Peter about the role of women in the Church... She was there with the 100 at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended as in tongues of fire... and we know she was probably the most qualified to lead the Church, but it didn't happen...but being the humble handmaid of the Lord, She chose to be obedient to Her Son's wishes ... why...because Christ initiated a male priesthood... JOOC, did the jewish people ever allow for women to be priests?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:16 pm 
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I posted this on a different thread but I think it belongs here...

The financial settlement issue is a ruse. It's not the reason that women priests do not exist and will never exist. The reason was, is, and always will be that:

a)Christ is the one who calls people to vocations and that same Christ (a male, btw) placed the Church as mediator of those vocations, period.

b)The Church has declared that the priesthood, based upon Scripture and Tradition, conveys the living and acting presence of Christ. The inescapable reality of Christ is that He is God incarnate and second person of the Trinity ONLY if He is male. He did not lose his 'maleness' after the Resurrection but rather maintained this innate property. To ordain a woman would be to render an impotent sacrament. Do we really want to give up the Real Presence of Christ in the name of 'equal rights'?

c)To separate the will of Christ from the will of the Church is impossible and presumptuous. Christ is alive and guiding us through His Church, especially through those appointed for this purpose and protected by the Spirit. Those who would separate the groom from His bride, the Church, fall into error and disobedience.

d)The Church is restrained by the practice of the Lord and his apostles. Any women she would ordain would not be priests, and any Masses they celebrate would not convey the sacrifice of Calvary. The Church's infallibility cannot be used in an arbitrary fashion. If Christ did not intend women to be ordained, then the Pope cannot make it so. He can no sooner make women priests than he can deny the Resurrection or the Presence in the Eucharist.

It is as it always has been. The doctrine of the Church is intact. To hold this belief that women should be ordained is really a battle against the Holy Spirit. Surrender--you cannot win. Be faithful. You put your faith in the Church and became Catholic because she holds fast to the Truth--do not second guess the Trinity and God's purveyor of Truth on Earth. Claiming that the will of Christ is that which I personally believe rather than what His shepherds, created for that purpose, declare is dangerous. The Devil's sin was that he would not serve God. Will you?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:44 pm 
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Thank you all for your responses. I do understand somewhat better the reasoning, now. Though the feminist in me may take a little more convincing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:55 pm 
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Quote:
you will not find women appointed as priests any where .


Nor will you find,in scripture, men appointed as priests.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:00 pm 
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Sure you will--unless you don't want to.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
Sure you will--unless you don't want to.


Please indicate the chapter & verse--unless you don't want to.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:16 pm 
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Do we really have to do this again?

Charles Coppens, S.J. wrote:
268. We have seen (n. 244) that Christ gave to His Apostles the sacerdotal power to offer the Eucharistic Sacrifice, when, at the Last Supper, after the institution of the Blessed Sacrament, He added, "Do this in commemoration of Me" (Luke XXII, 19). He gave them power to forgive sin, on the night after His resurrection (n. 255); He gave them power to rule the Church, when He said, "As the Father sent Me, I also send you" (Jo. XX, 21). We have also seen (n. 45) that the Apostles communicated their powers to some of their disciples, and instructed them to communicate the same to others. This transmission of powers was done by prayer and imposition of hands (Acts XIII, 3; 1 Tim. V, 22). St. Paul expressly states that grace was thus conveyed: "Neglect not the grace that is in thee by prophecy with imposition of the hands of the priesthood" (1 Tim. IV, 14); here is an outward ceremony instituted by Christ to produce grace. Thus we have in Orders *all the requisites of a Sacrament*. St. Augustine expressly treats of ordination as being a Sacrament in the same sense as Baptism is a Sacrament (C. Ep. ad Parm. II, 13), and all the ancient oriental sects have always maintained the same doctrine.


A Systematic Study of the Catholic Religion

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:26 pm 
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And, to anticipate the next objection:

Cardinal Newman wrote:
Surely the Sacred Volume was never intended, and is not adapted, to teach us our creed; however certain it is that we can prove our creed from it, when it has once been taught us, and in spite of individual producible exceptions to the general rule. From the very first, that rule has been, as a matter of fact, that the Church should teach the truth, and then should appeal to Scripture in vindication of its own teaching. And from the first, it has been the error of heretics to neglect the information thus provided for them, and to attempt of themselves a work to which they are unequal, the eliciting a systematic doctrine from the scattered notices of the truth which Scripture contains.


Arians of the Fourth Century, 50-51 (written while he was still an Anglican, BTW).

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:56 pm 
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If the 12 are the model for the priesthood, the CC should be ordaining only married Jewish men.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:00 pm 
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CommonMan wrote:
If the 12 are the model for the priesthood, the CC should be ordaining only married Jewish men.


Where in Scripture does it say that they were married?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:03 pm 
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1 Corinthians 9:5

"Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister as well as the rest of the apostles and the brethren of the Lord and Cephas?"


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