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 Post subject: Why no women priests?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:16 pm 
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Journeyman
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I am not Catholic, but I feel the spirit pulling me in that direction. Naturally, I am trying to learn all I can in the process. My first question is, why are women not allowed to enter the priesthood? (A question I'm sure you get all the time)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:20 pm 
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We do indeed, but thanks for asking anyhow.

Women are not allowed to enter the priesthood because the constant Tradition of the Church teaches that only men can be priests, and so we believe that it is revealed by God that only men can in fact be priests. We can speculate endlessly about He may have chosen to do that (and some do), but the truth of the doctrine doesn't depend on our explanations.

That said, if you want some light (hah!) reading, you can read Inter Insignores, a discussion of this issue released by the Holy See in 1976, but still valid today.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:22 pm 
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Jesus only called men to the priesthood and the Church doesn't have the liberty to change that (analogy, just as the Church can't declare that the moon is made of green cheese). Glad to see you posting here, ErikB. You've come on a glorious day. Hang around and don't be afraid to ask questions.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:53 pm 
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In 1984, Orwell makes it one of the features of the frightening language "Newspeak" that the words for "equal" and "the same" are identical. As a result, one could not express the idea that "all men are created equal" without simultaneously saying that "all men are created the same". Oddly enough, we now seem to have reached the point Orwell was describing in his satirical fantasy. We no longer seem able to appreciate the point that the equality of men and women does not indicate a sameness of men and women.

It never occurred to any generation until the present one that the inherent and divinely created distinctions between men and women should be ignored. This present and momentary fad -- for in the verrrry long view of things that is what we have here -- is a strange one. It is indeed popular -- but does that make it true, that there is no real or significant difference beween men and women? I would say not.

The church continues to hold what it has always held -- that not only can women equal men in the perfection of their souls, but can even surpass them, as the Blessed Virgin Mary surpasses all the saints in glory. Nevertheless, just as it would not make sense for me to hanker after being king of England, because it was not something I was born to be, just as it would not make sense for me to desire to be a short man, for I was not born to be one, just as it would be absurd for me to wish to be black, or Asian, or Eskimo, for I was not born such, in the same way it would be senseless for me to think there was anything wrong in the fact that my birth does not allow me to aspire after motherhood, or any of the other roles reserved for and proper to women. Likewise, no woman should waste her time pining after anything proper to a man -- and that would include both physical and ghostly fatherhood.

Custos


Last edited by Custos on Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:56 pm 
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But all men aren't created equal. That's humanist nonsense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:00 pm 
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Lauda Jerusalem Dominum wrote:
But all men aren't created equal. That's humanist nonsense.


Yet would you deny that all human beings, because they are human beings -- made, male and female, in the image and likeness of God -- have an equality of dignity? That was MY point.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Spiritually? Yes.
Temporally? No.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:07 pm 
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Okay. So you then agree completely with me in my argument that the spiritual equality of men and women does not in any way indicate that no distinction should be made between men and women, including in their roles in the ministry of the Church -- right? (or, to say the same thing in another way for those who get tripped up by double negatives, "The spiritual equality of men and women does not stand in the way of making distinctions between men and women -- including distinctions about the roles for men and women in the ministry of the Church")


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:19 pm 
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We just had a thread about this a week or two ago!

To shed more light, women cannot be priests because the Church is the Bride of Christ, and Christ is the Spouse of the Church. The priest stands in for Christ in relation to the Church, and therefore, the priest must properly be male.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:44 pm 
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A woman cannot be a priest anymore than she can be a father, or a man can be a mother.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:48 pm 
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I'm just being contrarian. Obviously all men are equal in dignity (whatever that means) before God but not necessarily before the law.

Of course men and women aren't the same, that is why the Apostle commands men to love and women to obey -- because men find it easy to obey and women find it easy to love.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:52 pm 
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Simple answer-Jesus did not allow for Women priests. The Infallible church declared that there can never be woman priests...end of story....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:00 pm 
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Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:03 pm 
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ErikB wrote:
Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?


Where does He appoint women as priests?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:38 pm 
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Lauda Jerusalem Dominum wrote:
ErikB wrote:
Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?


Where does He appoint women as priests?



you will not find women appointed as priests any where .

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:47 pm 
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ErikB wrote:
Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?



ErikB please do not take the following in a bad way,
however there are many things in the Bible that are not spelled out for us word for word.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:27 am 
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St Nicholas wrote:
ErikB wrote:
Jesus didn't allow for women priests? Forgive my ignorance, but where does he say this?



ErikB please do not take the following in a bad way,
however there are many things in the Bible that are not spelled out for us word for word.


Exactly. It's not spelled out that women can't be priests just as it isn't spelled out that they can. Why was the decision made that because it wasn't mentioned that it shouldn't be allowed?

Please don't take offense to any of this. I am just trying to learn.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:06 am 
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Hi Erik, I think the posters who have already responded have done a good job of explaining why the Catholic Church made the decision to confer Holy Orders on men only. Perhaps these paragraphs from the Catechism of the Catholic Church will help. Welcome to DCF!

Quote:
1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination." The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.

1578 No one has a right to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Indeed no one claims this office for himself; he is called to it by God. Anyone who thinks he recognizes the signs of God's call to the ordained ministry must humbly submit his desire to the authority of the Church, who has the responsibility and right to call someone to receive orders. Like every grace this sacrament can be received only as an unmerited gift.


These paragraphs can be viewed with their footnotes here:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm#1577

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:28 am 
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ErikB wrote:
Exactly. It's not spelled out that women can't be priests just as it isn't spelled out that they can. Why was the decision made that because it wasn't mentioned that it shouldn't be allowed?


Well, since the Bible doesn't say clearly, there has to be a clear message right?

:arrow: Does the Bible come with a God-approved set of interpretations written in it that help clarify this?

The answer is: NO. So which interpretation is correct? How about the Apostolic Interpretation of Scripture, which is preserved in the Church's Sacred Tradition which was passed down from the Apostles.

Tradition ruling: The Church has no authority to ordain women. Rome has spoken, the case is closed.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:54 am 
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ErikB wrote:
Exactly. It's not spelled out that women can't be priests just as it isn't spelled out that they can. Why was the decision made that because it wasn't mentioned that it shouldn't be allowed?


But it is spelled out. St. Paul says that women are to stay silent in church and to learn in all submission. How could a woman priest do this?

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