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 Post subject: Is there a Pope now?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:48 pm 
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Question from a non-Catholic. According to Catholic teaching, is it that there is no pope now, or rather that there is a pope, but we don't know who he is? That is, what makes a man the pope? Is he pope as by virtue of God's election as of the death of the former pope? Or is he made pope by the election, the end of the counting of the ballots, a certification by Card. Ratzinger? Something else?

Also, is there a theological significance to how the question is answered? For instance, whether the Catholic Church is ever without a universal pastor, etc.?

Thanks

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:57 pm 
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There currently is no pope. If whoever is elected is already a bishop (and the odds are slim to non-existent that he won't be), he is pope at the moment he accepts his election. If he is not a bishop, he is pope as soon as he is made a bishop.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:09 pm 
Yup, technically, right now, we're ALL Sedevacantists :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Got it. Thanks!

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"Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ – in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:24 am 
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???? I read one of the Cardinals say that "God has already chosen a Pope, now we must follow His leading to elect that Pope."

Y'all really think we don't have a Pope - or just that we don't know who he is yet???


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:13 am 
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The Cardinal was speaking metaphorically. God in His wisdom certainly knows who the best person to elect would be, but the electors might or might not listen to Him (that's one of the reasons we pray for the conclave, which we're all doing--right?). If Cardinal X is elected, anything he had said or done between the death of John Paul II and his own election would not have been said or done by a pope.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:53 am 
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deerlisa wrote:
???? I read one of the Cardinals say that "God has already chosen a Pope, now we must follow His leading to elect that Pope."

Y'all really think we don't have a Pope - or just that we don't know who he is yet???


This is something that I believe. God has already chosen our next Pope and will guide the Cardinals through the Holy Spirit to elect him. Praise God for his wisdom!

Question: IF a situation came up during the election that needed immediate guidance from the Church.....who would decide what to do? Would all the Cardinals vote on the answer, or would one take action? If one.....who?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:16 am 
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Nobody can act with papal authority. All we could do in such a situation is pray for a quick election.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:36 pm 
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Ricg,


Quote:
Is there a Pope now?


Yes there is :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:06 pm 
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Amen!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:38 pm 
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Gee, thanks, guys!

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"Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ – in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:01 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Nobody can act with papal authority. All we could do in such a situation is pray for a quick election.


Our prayers were answered, God is so good!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:25 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
There currently is no pope. If whoever is elected is already a bishop (and the odds are slim to non-existent that he won't be), he is pope at the moment he accepts his election. If he is not a bishop, he is pope as soon as he is made a bishop.



Apparently, this is a disputed question among theologians, exactly when a pontificate 'officially begins', so to speak. Some sources date a pontificate from the time of his consecration, not election. So, by this rule, Benedict XVI's reign will begin on Sunday, not yesterday.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:34 am 
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Not anymore. It's spelled out in Universi Dominici Gregis:

88. After his acceptance, the person elected, if he has already received episcopal ordination, is immediately Bishop of the Church of Rome, true Pope and Head of the College of Bishops. He thus acquires and can exercise full and supreme power over the universal Church.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:45 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Not anymore. It's spelled out in Universi Dominici Gregis:

88. After his acceptance, the person elected, if he has already received episcopal ordination, is immediately Bishop of the Church of Rome, true Pope and Head of the College of Bishops. He thus acquires and can exercise full and supreme power over the universal Church.



Then why do so many sources say that John Paul's reign began on Oct 22, 1978 with his consecration, rather than 6 days prior, on his election? :?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:05 pm 
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Because John Paul II issued UDG.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:45 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Not anymore. It's spelled out in Universi Dominici Gregis:

88. After his acceptance, the person elected, if he has already received episcopal ordination, is immediately Bishop of the Church of Rome, true Pope and Head of the College of Bishops. He thus acquires and can exercise full and supreme power over the universal Church.


When an already consecrated bishop becomes, and can function fully as, Pope seems to have been decided even before Universi Dominici Gregis. UDG seems to only repeat and affirm what the 1983 CODE OF CANON LAW (also promulgated after the start of John Paul II's pontificate) states.
The 1983 CODE wrote:
Can. 332 §1 The Roman Pontiff acquires full and supreme power in the Church when, together with episcopal consecration, he has been lawfully elected and has accepted the election. Accordingly, if he already has the episcopal character, he receives this power from the moment he accepts election to the supreme pontificate. If he does not have the episcopal character, he is immediately to be ordained Bishop.

The necessity of being ordained a bishop is only to handle the possible but extremely-extremely-extremely unlikely event of a non-bishop being elected.


Edward Pothier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:27 pm 
And there's also the case of Pope Stephen II - he died after election but before consecration, and the Vatican does not include him in the list of Popes.


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a Pope now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm 
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If one Pope is writing a papal encyclical and died, can the new Pope complete this same encyclical if it had not been completely written?


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a Pope now?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Yes, it is possible. Pope Francis completed the encyclical Lumen Fidei written by Pope Benedict XVI, who then retired.

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