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 Post subject: Responding to Persecution?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:49 am 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Hello All--

I've run into a sticky issue with my daughter and hope those here can offer solutions.

Background: Brittany is 13 and in 7th grade. She will be baptised next Saturday at the Easter Vigil mass. She has long talked of wanting to enter a religious community, and she is (according to many people) unusually devout for her age. Earlier in this school year, we noticed that she wasn't eating at school. When asked, she said that she just wasn't hungry and didn't see any reason to take a lunch she had no intention of eating.

This week has been traumatic for Brit. Tuesday she told my huband and me that another girl in school was threatening to beat her up. We told her to ignore the girl, since kids run off at the mouth all the time.

Wednesday, I received a call from the school. According to the principal, the girl attacked Brit in class and beat her about the head while cursing. The school stated that Brit had done nothing to provoke the incident and did not fight back. Brit was only mildly injured, but terribly upset.

Thursday, the girl was in school and threatening to kill Brit (a threat that we now have in writing.) We're still waiting to see what kind of punishment the girl will receive for both attacking Brit and threatening her life (my bet is, not much.)

In the midst of all this mayhem, Brit told me the real reason why she doesn't eat at school. Apparently, when she tries to cross herself and pray over her food, other kids throw food at her and call her a religious nut, etc. She says that every time she tries to pray, whether at lunch or during the recess break or wherever, the other kids threaten her or call her names. She said she'd rather go hungry than not say a prayer over her lunch.

The school says that Brit has to modify her behavior to avoid "antagonizing" the other kids. The DRE, a kind woman and someone I respect, said pretty much the same thing, although with a caveat: Brit can pray with no one knowing about it.

But deep down in my mother's gut, I think Brit has every right in the world to cross herself and say any prayer she likes without fear of harassment or physical injury.

And Brit. . .. Well, she's begging me to not make her go to school, which is an outrage. This child took the SAT in January and made a 960 combined. She has a good mind and should be free to use it. She generally enjoys the academic side of school, although the work part isn't particularly well-loved (she's a typical 13-year-old!)

So, what do you say? Should Brit avoid crossing herself to lessen her torment at school? Should I hire a lawyer and let it fly? Or do you have another idea?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:17 am 
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Elena,

This is outrageous! Is this a Catholic School? Either way you, but especially your husband, must get off square one. But I must know whether or not this is a Catholic School.

Dan L

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:24 am 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Hi Athanasius--

No, it's a public school. She's asked to be sent to a nun-run Catholic school for years, but I can't afford it.

And to add to the confusion, my husband isn't Catholic--yet (I'm praying for his conversion.)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:42 am 
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Elena,

It's time for your husband to go to war. In fact it is past time that your husband go to war. Perhaps by exercising his male duty and privilege to protect his family, especially the women it it, he will have the courage to surrender to Christ and become a Catholic. If the men don't stand up against such abuses of power that the school has exercised by refusing to protect your daughter God help us all. He needs to take time off of work and go to the school and knock heads. This is not a time for passively watching while your daughter suffers.

Who the hell is the DRE anyway? Is this someone in your Church? If so, he/she needs to lose her job for such evil advice. If she doesn't you need to go to another Church. Make sure and tell your priest about his/her abrogation of duty by giving such poor advice and if the priest does nothing then go to anothe parish.

Dan L

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"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." — G.K. Chesterton


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:50 am 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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Hi Athanasius--

The DRE is the Director of Religious Education at our parish.

So you think that Brit should be able to pray at school without harrassment or assault? That's my thoughts too, but thus far you and I are the only people I've consulted who think so.

I haven't talked to the parish priest yet, but I'm guessing that he won't be much help. But perhaps I'm wrong,. . ..

I'm going to leave your post up and pray that my husband sees it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:09 am 
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Dear One,

Your daughter is in danger. Your husband must act. It's not just a matter of keeping peace with your non Catholic husband. Your daughter is you and your husband very flesh. She is God's gift to you both. He must act and act decisively.

An incident in an African preserve is a rather rough illustration of what I mean. For some reason a particular reserve came to the point that all of the bull elephants had either died or had been killed. The young males had no one to keep them in check. There was no authority figure present to train them. A growing number of our human boys and girls are absent any strong male to keep them in check. This fact was devastating to the wildlife in the African preserve. By the time it was caught the young male elephants had killed most of the rhinos in the preserve. The humans quickly analyzed the problem and shortly after reintroducing a couple of bulls into the preserve the problem was solved.

Likewise the only person who can shake the stuffings out of the damned school administrators who have not acted against the bullies is a strong male i.e., your daughter's dad.

Have your husband think of John Candy when he was the babysitter in the movie (the name escapes me). Tell him to go in there and give a quarter to the administrators so they can go downtown and have a rat chew the melanoma off their faces.

I am the proud bull of my family. I wouldn't have it any other way. Your husband needs to protect your daughter.

Your daughter will forever admire you both.

If your priest will not act to discipline or fire the DRE you need a different priest.

Dan L

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:49 am 
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Where is this school? What location is it in? I think some supportive letters to the school would be in order. I think Bill O'Reilly would like this case!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:51 am 
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ElenaMarie wrote:
Hi Athanasius--

The DRE is the Director of Religious Education at our parish.

So you think that Brit should be able to pray at school without harrassment or assault? That's my thoughts too, but thus far you and I are the only people I've consulted who think so.

I haven't talked to the parish priest yet, but I'm guessing that he won't be much help. But perhaps I'm wrong,. . ..

I'm going to leave your post up and pray that my husband sees it.


You have the right to pray and practice your faith anywhere! This is political correctness run a munk! These bullies are the product of families gone south!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:18 am 
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catholic defender wrote:
You have the right to pray and practice your faith anywhere! This is political correctness run a munk! These bullies are the product of families gone south!


We have many pitiful families in the north as well.
:wink:
Dan L

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"To say that God turns away from the sinful is like saying that the sun hides from the blind." St. Anthony the Great (of the desert)

"There are those who hate Christianity and call their hatred an all-embracing love for all religions." — G.K. Chesterton


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:43 am 
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Athanasius wrote:
catholic defender wrote:
You have the right to pray and practice your faith anywhere! This is political correctness run a munk! These bullies are the product of families gone south!


We have many pitiful families in the north as well.
:wink:
Dan L


Hi Dan! You have a point in the natural realm!!!! God bless and great to see you again!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:12 pm 
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First of all it is the duty to be an advocate for their children, particularly in this situation.

Second, it is the duty of a Director of Religious Education to ensure religious education occurs and is done properly. The advice offered promotes denying of our Faith in an instance where we are to "walk" in it.

Third, it is the duty of the administrators of a public school to uphold and defend the individual rights of students established by the U.S. Constitution. (Emphasis added)

Amendment I, U.S. Constitution wrote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


The Delcaration of Independence explains the obligations of Government in guaranteeing individual rights. (Emphasis added)

Declaration of Independence wrote:
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men,


If a student's religion calls for a prayer before a meal, then that action should be protected by the School Administrators as long as it is not a disruptive activity Bowed head, silent prayer, and making the sign of the cross cannot be rationally construed as such, even by the most secular of thought. But there are irrational secularist in positions of authority.

I would think the approach would be to ask the School Administrators what they are going to do to enforce Constitutional rights and what they are going to do to protect students from verbal abuse and physical abuse because of one's religion. Such abuse is a hate crime and secularists are all about the prevention and punishment of hate crimes.

If that does not produce proper results, then it may be time for lawyers and the press. Of course, your daughter should have input on these last types of action.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:50 pm 
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YOU SENT HER BACK TO SCHOOL???

DID YOU FILE ASSAULT CHARGES AGAINST THE GIRL WHO HIT YOUR DAUGHTER?

Elena - It sounds like you are ASKING PERMISSION to DEFEND YOUR DAUGHTER!

I agree with Dan being the bull of his family, but if your husband isn't - your daughter needs your protection!

Surely you have heard of "mama bear!" There aren't many stories of "papa bears," but woe to the one who gets between mama and one of her cubs!

I am not a "favorite" at the public middle school where I live, but I have made it quite clear to teachers, the nurse and both principals on more than one occasion: DON'T MESS WITH MY KIDS! And they don't! I don't care whether they like me or not, but they do respect my children and that is more important to me.

Good luck to you, Elena. I hope you will find the strength you need to be bold to defend your daughter!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:17 pm 
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I cannot believe that the girl that attacked your daughter is not suspended! She was at school the next day? One attack and still is harrassing her? I would go to the head school official and the police! Yes, too be able to pray at school is one issue here, but the main issue is your daughter's safety. Kids these days kill each other, they just don't fight.
Dawn
PS...God bless your daughter, she sounds like a wonderful person!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:20 pm 
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Demand expulsion hearings for the girl and file assault charges. And get the DRE fired.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:25 pm 
Dawn wrote:
PS...God bless your daughter, she sounds like a wonderful person!

Amen


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:25 am 
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Saint in the making here.......

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:29 am 
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Elena, I wish you well with this.

The sources of the problem are two: first, the girl who attacked your daughter (and any others like her, if there are such at the school), and second, the school administration which thinks that such behavior is hunky-dory.

Let us first consider the girl. When you were called to the school, did you ask what action was being taken against the attacker, and what steps were being taken to prevent the recurrence of such intolerable behavior. If so, what were you told? If not, go right back to the school first thing Monday morning and ask those questions then. Have you contacted the mother of the girl who attacked your daughter? If so, what does she say? If not, why not? Call her today, and talk to her. Has anyone - school official, or her parent -- talked to the girl herself? If so, what is the girl's story, and what was she told about the unacceptability of her actions? If not, why not? If no one has done this, in your conversations both with the school and with her mother say that you would like someone to teach this girl right from wrong.

Now let us turn to the school. The principal sounds like a ninny. Did you ask if students are being taught that religion is bad? Did you ask why he or she thinks that your daughter is supposed to modify her legally protected behavior? Did you ask if this means that the principal is supporting acts of religious prejudice? Demand that the principal explain what he or she means by that insulting word "antagonizing". Ask the principal if he or she disapproves of religious faith. Ask the principal if he or she would also tell a black or Asian mother that her child has to modify how she looks in order to stop "antagonizing" violent acts of prejudice. Tell the principal that his/her words are prejudiced and insulting, demand to know why the principal is not doing his/her duty to teach children that violence and prejudice are wrong, demand an apology, and demand corrective action starting immediately. (You might also consider taping the conversation-- preferably secretly, if such is permitted in your state as it is in my own.) If you do not get any immediate proper action from the principal, go to the school board and complain. It would be particularly helpful if you could do this at a public meeting. Also complain to the local governing body (e.g., city council, county commission), and to your local or state Equal Opportunity office. You can and should send letters, but also go in person wherever you can. A visit to the local newspaper to give them the story that "Principal Supports Bigots Who Beat Girl for Christianity" might also do wonders. And have you thought of contacting (I am VERY serious) the ACLU?

Your husband should definitely be involved in all these activities. The advice given by Athanasius, however, while well-intentioned, is spectacularly lousy. Under NO circumstances let your husband go storming down to the school in order to "knock heads". Besides the fact that such a response is neither genuinely helpful nor appropriate, there is also the fact that you will lose in the court of public opinion -- and it is in public opinion that you must win. When a vicious little hoyden attacks your daughter for being religious and the school does not discipline her attacker properly, all sympathy belongs to your daughter. Do you think you will retain any sympathy at all when the story gets around that an adult man tried to beat up a thirteen year old schoolgirl because of some school dispute between children? There is also the not-insignificant fact that for an adult man to enter school grounds for the purpose of beating up a minor female (or anyone else) is almost invariably a felony, so when (not if) your husband got arrested, you would be in for far more grief than you can imagine. (Of course, you might ask Athanasius to lend you the money for the bail....sorry, just kidding.)

The tone to keep in all this is firmness, righteousness, and barely controlled outrage. A verrrrrrrrrrry slight edge of sarcasm and veiled contempt might also come in handy.

Good luck,

Custos


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:50 pm 
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Good Afternoon, All--

I fear I inadvertently gave the wrong impression in my effort to keep the opening post brief and focused on the issue of what to tell Brit about being harassed for her devotion.

When I found out that the attacker was back in school Thursday, I jumped the chain of command right then. Part of that problem was, I think, a conflict of interest on the administrator's part. While speaking with him Friday, he assured me that he knows the girl's mother "very well" and is certain that she won't tolerate that kind of behavior out of her child. (If that were the case, the kid wouldn't be behaving like that to start with, but I digress.) So I called the head principal and got Brit's core teachers involved, and the girl was removed from the classroom sometime Friday. But half a day's suspension is far from adequate punishment, and that's what I meant by waiting to see what the punishment will be. If it is not sufficiently harsh, I'm going to the district level and if they won't take care of it, I'm going to the state level. My husband works for a state legislator so I'll ask him what steps to take.

In the meantime, I have the core teachers (with whom Brit spends most of the day) on board. All four of them were mad as wet hens Friday (when the threatening note was found) and I really think they'll do whatever it takes to make sure Brit is not physically harmed again. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their actions were the catalyst for removing the girl Friday. The frightening part is, who knows what this nitwit child is planning. ...?

I spoke with the Sheriffs Department on-site officer Wednesday. He said that the normal procedure for this kind of thing (without the threat) was to write it up with a recommendation to dismiss and send the report to the solicitor's office. If it happens again, the solicitor will press charges. First thing Monday morning I'm going to get with him again and find out if and/or how the threat changes his normal procedures. As far as I can tell, the solicitor's office won't press charges at this stage because it isn't sufficiently severe, as in Brit was not seriously injured. :mad:

LiveBy--Funny you should mention the Constitution. I was making those same points Friday to the discipline principal. And I think I need to allow the school to do the right thing before I let fly with the lawyers and such. But if they don't, I have every intention of making a terrible fuss.

Lisa-- :) Most people tell me I need to do more to contain my mama bear instinct. But never fear, I'm not taking this lying down.

Dawn—I couldn’t believe the kid was back Thursday either. I really think there’s a conflict of interest issue at work here that explains why she was back.

Dawn, Cathaholic and Pythia—Brit is a typical 13-year-old in a lot of ways. All you need do is look at her bedroom for evidence! ;) But she is extremely devout, and in that many people have told me she is not typical. Take Lent, for example. Last year, she thought that fasting applied every day, so for two weeks she ate once per day. I had to get the priest to tell her that fasting was for Ash Wednesday and Fridays only, and even then she was reluctant to quit. She gave up the telephone for Lent in 2001. I was admitted to the hospital during the third week and she wouldn’t get on the phone to talk to me until one of the deacons told her that in that circumstance it would be okay. God is at work in her.

Catholic Defender—Believe it or not, we are firmly ensconced in the “Bible Belt.” If things are not adequately resolved, I’ll give you our stats and you can call O’Reilly.

Catholic Cadet—The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the DRE was focused on how to lessen Brit’s suffering, and quite frankly the easiest way would be for Brit to stop displaying her devotion. Initially I agreed but like I said, the more I think about it the more I think she should be allowed to practice her faith without interference.

Custos—I left work Wednesday and went straight to the school. The principal of discipline (I guess he’s kind of like a vice principal) told me that he hadn’t been able to reach the other girl’s parents. I don’t know if I believe that or not in light of the conflict of interest issue. Monday morning I’m going to get with the head principal and the sherrifs department again and find out how the threat changes the equation (they were all gone by the time I got there Friday.) Also, I don’t think Athanasius meant for Mitch to go down and beat anyone. Fact is, men are more likely to take other men seriously, whereas mothers are dismissed as “hypersensitive.” Problem is, Mitch doesn’t communicate verbally very well, especially when he’s angry, which is why I generally deal with things like this.

I have a friend in the talk radio business here, and I know the executive secretary for the local paper’s editorial department. If I don’t get some serious action, I’ll go to them for help. But I want to give the school a chance to do right first.

Please, everyone, keep Brit in your prayers. She’s got a lot of courage, but she’s still just a kid and I worry about her.

Thanks so much, and keep the good ideas coming!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:51 pm 
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Outstanding!! You are way ahead here, Elena.

A couple of things to follow up -- is this girl the only problem, or are there more? It might be good to get a firm commitment from the discipline principal to stop this nonsense school-wide, now. And I was very serious about tcalling he ACLU if you don't get satisfaction. I know that everyone thinks of them as a liberal and anti-religion-in-schools group, but they like to think of themselves as even-handed-- and they certainly have both the experience and the resources to take this on properly.

And Brit is in my prayers. We all might put in a word to good St. Anne about her as well. Why St. Anne? Because she is the patron saint of BRITTANY, of course :wink:

Custos


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:35 am 
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We have an agreement here!!!!!

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