Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 2 of 4   [ 75 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:26 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
That's probably based on Graham Hancock's "chariots-of-the-gods"-style book on this subject. He argued that the Ark was taken from the Temple to the Jewish Temple in Elephantine, Egypt, (or was it Syene?) and was taken even further south when the pagan Egyptians destroyed that Temple, eventually reaching Ethiopia. There isn't a shred of evidence to support his scenario, which contradicts the biblical account of King Josiah. Hancock tries to explain that away by saying something like, "Yeah, Josiah told the priests to put the Ark back in the Temple, but notice that the Bible doesn't say the priests obeyed his command. That's because they couldn't, because they didn't have the Ark anymore, a fact the biblical writer deliberately covered up!"

So it's just another kooky conspiracy theory. The absence of proof is proof for Hancock.

A couple of other things -- we know that the Jewish Temple in Elephantine, built as a replica of the Temple in Jerusalem, was a place where the Egyptian Jews worshipped both Yahveh AND Yahveh's Spouse, a mother goddess figure. Notice that in Jeremiah, the Jewish community in Egypt expresses faith both in God and in "the queen of heaven," a pagan mother goddess. In other words, the Temple in Elephantine was a place of apostasy. By no means would God allow the Ark to be placed in a pagan or apostate Temple -- we saw what happened to the Philistines when they did that.

Also, it's "the Queen of Sheba," not "Bathsheba." Bathsheba is Solomon's mother. The Queen of Sheba was a southern Arabian ruler, traditionally called Makeda among the Ethiopians and Belqis among the Arabs. Her real name is unknown.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:32 am 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:26 am
Posts: 103147
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
Polycarp wrote:
Maybe St. John saw both the Ark and the Blessed Virgin, though it seems the vision showed the Ark merely as a symbol of Mary.


sounds to me that verse 7 of the II Maccabees quote refers to the grafting of the jews back onto the vine at the end of the world... and the original ark will be revealed then

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:05 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
That interpretation makes sense, though I suppose it could also refer to Christ's first coming and His founding of the Church.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:00 am 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:26 am
Posts: 103147
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
then you would be kinda in line with a noted apologist's explanation when i posed the same question to him...he said

Quote:
As far as your point about the Ark, I believe that this prophecy is
fulfilled in Jesus and his Mother. She is the Ark of the Covenant that
is described as having "the power of the most high shall overshadow you..." (Luke 1:35). And Jesus dwelling within is the true fulfillment of the
prophecy of Jeremiah. Jesus is the temple, Jesus is the presence of God
dwelling in our midst and Mary is the ark.


the old is fulfilled by the new..... :wink:

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:06 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:28 am
Posts: 2139
Location: Nuevo Mexico
Religion: Rome Sweet Home
Didn't you see Raiders of the Lost Ark? It's in a crate in some government warehouse!

Seriously, doesn't Revelations point to it being in Heaven? Doesn't John see it in Heaven and then see the woman?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:51 pm 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
Polycarp wrote:
By no means would God allow the Ark to be placed in a pagan or apostate Temple -- we saw what happened to the Philistines when they did that.



Yeah, maybe that's how we can find the ark. Just search heath statistics to see which communities are most afflicted with hemmorhoids. The ark should be there....(First Samuel, Ch 5) :)

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:51 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:33 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Quebec, Canada
Mary, Ark of the Covenant - by Dr. Scott Hahn

http://www.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgt ... m4/ma.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:05 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 460
"Frankly, we Christians aren't all that interested in Old Covenant relics like the Ark of the Covenant, since we have the true Ark of the Covenant, the Blessed Virgin."

That's too bad, Polycarp. I, for one am very interested in "Old Covenant relics like the Ark of the Covenant".

The box in the chapel in Ethiopia is a pious legend. The Ark is hidden under the Temple Mount, and Rabbi Shlomo Goren And Rabbi Yehuda Getz actually saw it there, although
this article in Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=286935
doesn't say so. I was told this by two very well connected people in Jerusalem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:30 pm 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
Pythia wrote:
I, for one am very interested in "Old Covenant relics like the Ark of the Covenant".



Me, too. Its historical and religious value are immeasurable.


(Still wondering why it doesn't give the Arabs hemmorhoids, though.)

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 9:23 am
Posts: 19259
Location: NYC area
Religion: Catholic
Max Majestic wrote:
(Still wondering why it doesn't give the Arabs hemmorhoids, though.)


Knowing them, they would twist it as an Arab, not a Jewish, object. Just like they think it was Ishmael, not Isaac, who Abraham almost sacrificed.

_________________
A modern day Shunamite woman. (2 Kgs. 4:26)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:46 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
The Ark is special as a part of the heritage of Christianity's Jewish roots, but it isn't a holy thing that is necessary for Christianity's existence or function (nor for that matter does Judaism need the Ark -- it has survived pretty well without the Ark since the 500s B.C.) That's why I said we Christians aren't all that interested in it. It would be nice to find out what happened to it and where it is now, but it's more a matter of pious curiosity than it is of true religious importance to anyone. The Temple that housed the Ark was destroyed -- if the Ark also turns out to have been destroyed, it wouldn't be a horrifying disaster. If God took it to heaven, well and good. No doctrine of the faith stands or falls on the location and fate of the Ark.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:58 pm 
Offline
Huckleberry
Huckleberry
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 14677
Location: The Bright, Sunny South
Religion: Catholic
Polycarp wrote:
No doctrine of the faith stands or falls on the location and fate of the Ark.


True, no doctrine of our faith stands or falls on it....but some Jews, such as activist Noel Lerner, who want to reestablish the Temple would definitely be interested in finding it.

_________________
"Spread love everywhere you go."
- Bl. Mother Teresa


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:50 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 460
Polycarp wrote:
It would be nice to find out what happened to it and where it is now, but it's more a matter of pious curiosity than it is of true religious importance to anyone.


Excuse me while I :sick: This is so smug sounding to me. If it was found, it would be of tremendous religious importance to me, if you don't mind! Harrumph!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:43 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Quote:
If it was found, it would be of tremendous religious importance to me,


Why? It vanished in 586 B.C. It's now A.D. 2005. It's been gone longer than the Temple and the Aaronic priesthood, and yet Judaism and Christianity have gotten along swimmingly without the Temple or Aaronic priesthood or the Ark. The disappearance and lack of necessity of the Ark is exactly what God prophesied through Jeremiah. So why would a Jew or a Christian regard the discovery of the Ark of tremendous religious importance?

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:35 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 460
Because it is sacred. I am not sure Jusaism has really "gotten along swimmingly without the Temple or Aaronic priesthood" in any event.


And this sentence:

So why would a Jew or a Christian regard the discovery of the Ark of tremendous religious importance?

shows a complete blindness on your part to the importance the Ark would have to the Jews. Perhaps it would have no importance to many Christians, but I wouldn't know...I am Jewish. As a Jewish Catholic, I can tell you it would be of major importance to me, in terms of prophetic events.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:55 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Quote:
Because it is sacred.


So was the Temple.

Judaism's continued existence from 586 B.C. until today without the Ark -- including 600 years when the Temple existed without the Ark -- seem like pretty clear evidence that Judaism doesn't need the Ark in order for Judaism to continue to exist.

What prophetic events did you have in mind? Jer. 3:16, perhaps?

"And it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, says the LORD, they shall say no more, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD,' neither shall it come to mind, neither shall they remember it, neither shall they visit it, neither shall that be done any more."

So then, what you say is sacred (present tense) was something destined to cease to be a part of the religion of Israel. So why focus attention and energies on something that God says we should forget about? Why look to shadows when you can have the reality?

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:28 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 460
You're not the same "Polycarp" who posts pn the AHC board, are you?

_________________
http://conservativebohemian.blogspot.com
The story of my conversion to the Catholic Faith.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:37 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
I'm subscribed to the AHC email list, where I use my saint's name as I do here. I don't know anything about a board -- unless AHC emails end up posted to a website.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:11 am 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:14 pm
Posts: 460
Are you Ardgowan?

_________________
http://conservativebohemian.blogspot.com
The story of my conversion to the Catholic Faith.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:16 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:00 am
Posts: 4668
Location: Diocese of Peoria, Illinois
Religion: Catholic
Yes.

_________________
I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen. -- St. Polycarp's prayer of thanksgiving at his martyrdom, 156 A.D.

Baby No. 8 is on the way!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 2 of 4   [ 75 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


Jump to: