Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 13 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:31 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
Dominic wrote:
In the East, Tradition has been described as the consciousness of the Church that illuminates what is written. For those of us that are Latins, it's sensus fidelium [SF] or the sense of the faithful......which is essentially the same thing. It's a lens or spiritual instinct the Church poses to expand on [and or] preserve what already is.

This personally throws me for a loop at times when specifically talking to more Traditional Catholics because this is more often invoked by them. Some will say Limbo is SF, for example. Others may point to the church teaching the wife should submit to the husband and how SF can better define the mechanics of how that works.

The problem is, it's sometimes difficult for many Catholics to distinguish from catholic public opinion and SF.

Thankfully, we don't have to. We have the Church for that. How else would we know?


Is SF and Oral Tradition the same thing?

SF seems elusive and subject to public opinion. At the same time, it's been noted to me that SF is what pushed back against the Arian heresy for example. Where many bishops were in fact wrong on the issue.

LG notes:
The whole body of the faithful who have an anointing that comes from the holy one (cf. 1 Jn. 2:20 and 27) cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of the faith (sensus fidei) of the whole people, when, "from the bishops to the last of the faithful"[8] they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals. By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the People of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (Magisterium), and obeying it, receives not the mere word of men, but truly the word of God (cf. 1 Th. 2:13), the faith once for all delivered to the saints (cf. Jude 3). The People unfailingly adheres to this faith, penetrates it more deeply with right judgment, and applies it more fully in daily life.

Were the faithful "guided by the sacred teaching authority" in Arianism?

It seems to go one way or the other and it eludes me how this works exactly.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:17 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:15 pm
Posts: 46
Location: In the midst of basinonians
Religion: Latin Catholic
CCC 2034

Reference also CCC 100 and notice that it is only when in communion with the Pope.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:27 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76509
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
"tradition" is not a set of propositions and it is not necessarily oral.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:41 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
JM3 wrote:
CCC 2034

Reference also CCC 100 and notice that it is only when in communion with the Pope.


That's what I understood when I noted "guided by the sacred teaching authority".....it includes the Pope.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:42 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
Doom wrote:
"tradition" is not a set of propositions and it is not necessarily oral.


I knew that much.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:11 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:15 pm
Posts: 46
Location: In the midst of basinonians
Religion: Latin Catholic
Dominic wrote:
JM3 wrote:
CCC 2034

Reference also CCC 100 and notice that it is only when in communion with the Pope.


That's what I understood when I noted "guided by the sacred teaching authority".....it includes the Pope.


It doesn't just include the Pope, it is the Pope.

The Church isn't a democracy and neither is sensus fidei. It would not be right judgement to make a parallel with either, which, it seems, you are doing. Perhaps, a prayerful rereading of the LG you quoted would be helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:56 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
JM3 wrote:
Dominic wrote:
JM3 wrote:
CCC 2034

Reference also CCC 100 and notice that it is only when in communion with the Pope.


That's what I understood when I noted "guided by the sacred teaching authority".....it includes the Pope.


It doesn't just include the Pope, it is the Pope.

The Church isn't a democracy and neither is sensus fidei. It would not be right judgement to make a parallel with either, which, it seems, you are doing. Perhaps, a prayerful rereading of the LG you quoted would be helpful.

Quite the opposite. Some examples in Church history show a minority holding fast.

The problem I see is that Sensus Fidelium is called upon on things like limbo, more hyper-literal interpretations of Genesis, and some even use it to say the Church holds to the position of rejecting evolution out right.

How are these things SF?

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:37 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:15 pm
Posts: 46
Location: In the midst of basinonians
Religion: Latin Catholic
They are not. Using something incorrectly doesn't make the conclusion correct, nor can we judge other cultures by our own.

Limbo, evolution and self interpretation are not matters of faith and morals.or are they in communion with the Pope. Therefore, they are not SF.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:53 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
JM3 wrote:
They are not. Using something incorrectly doesn't make the conclusion correct, nor can we judge other cultures by our own.

Limbo, evolution and self interpretation are not matters of faith and morals.or are they in communion with the Pope. Therefore, they are not SF.

That's been my understanding as well.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:54 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
JM3 wrote:
They are not. Using something incorrectly doesn't make the conclusion correct, nor can we judge other cultures by our own.

Limbo, evolution and self interpretation are not matters of faith and morals.or are they in communion with the Pope. Therefore, they are not SF.


Do you consider SF and Oral Tradition the same thing?

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:21 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:15 pm
Posts: 46
Location: In the midst of basinonians
Religion: Latin Catholic
I don't see how it can be. As far as I know, oral tradition comes from the Apostles and you would have a hard time proving something is oral tradition.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:03 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 83788
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
SF is a witness to Tradition.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sensus Fidelium VS Oral Tradition
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:34 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2493
Religion: Catholic
Got it. Thanks.

I didn't know SF was infallible. I'm not even certain what a good example of SF would be.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 13 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


Jump to: