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 Post subject: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:54 pm 
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“Birds of a feather should stick together”

I recall working in Taco Bell long ago and the manager whom I thought was rather nice to me (only relevant in that we are not the same ethnicity) telling me she believes in not mixing with other kinds. At worst, I thought it sounded awfully racist, but had dealt with her enough to not make that conclusion about her. It seemed like such an odd thing to me. Didn’t think much of it since until……recently read someone say that human beings are divided into races, and that some of those races pass in and out of existence and that they each have a purpose and a mode.... sort of like the choirs of angels.

I can’t help but think given human history how this can turn ugly rather quickly.

Is there any merit to this?

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Not that I can see.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Ok....

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:02 pm 
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I wasn't aware of any race other than the human race...

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:40 am 
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I understand, especially in small, ethnic communities where their traditions, customs, belief are waning, a desire to not be swallowed up... Which means, of course, either not marrying outside the group or requiring any would be spouse to convert, as it were.

The fact is races, nations, languages have always been in flux. Red headed celts were likely from Anatolia (and Turks are from the Eastern steppes), and Polynesian s from Taiwan (and most Taiwanese now from China). Some of the oldest living languages are endangered now. But whole cultures show the mark of swallowing up others... Hindi is Indo-European, but adopted many Dravidic peculiarities that hide its relation to its European cousins.

We may lament the loss of unique expressions, cultures, traditions, but they are not permanent as such. "Race", if that means an actual people, with its own story etc, is just a family tree writ large. And as with all branches off of the trunk of Adam, eventually parts get lost to time, grafted on other parts, etc. We should cherish our histories, our ancestors and our people, without fearing that in a few generations there will be a different history

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:26 am 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
I understand, especially in small, ethnic communities where their traditions, customs, belief are waning, a desire to not be swallowed up... Which means, of course, either not marrying outside the group or requiring any would be spouse to convert, as it were.

The fact is races, nations, languages have always been in flux. Red headed celts were likely from Anatolia (and Turks are from the Eastern steppes), and Polynesian s from Taiwan (and most Taiwanese now from China). Some of the oldest living languages are endangered now. But whole cultures show the mark of swallowing up others... Hindi is Indo-European, but adopted many Dravidic peculiarities that hide its relation to its European cousins.

We may lament the loss of unique expressions, cultures, traditions, but they are not permanent as such. "Race", if that means an actual people, with its own story etc, is just a family tree writ large. And as with all branches off of the trunk of Adam, eventually parts get lost to time, grafted on other parts, etc. We should cherish our histories, our ancestors and our people, without fearing that in a few generations there will be a different history

This sounds more like ethnicity to me, rather than race. That……….I can understand more. However, I suspect in the most recent encounter it was meant more as a phenotypical concern. I understand even at that level one wants to relate to others where it is most obvious. One doesn’t want to be the only red-headed freckled albino in Africa for example or a small minority thereof. But in this case, you aren’t even really talking about a small group or even an extinct race. I was just trying to contemplate if there is a healthy way of seeing this without it manifesting itself in the common ways it has in history.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:57 am 
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Race is a biological construct. Culture is a social construct. We have been indoctrinated to think that culture = race. It doesn't. But, some cultures maintain that race explains various personal and sub-cultural ills.

Oh, and if a member of one race can breed with a member of another race, then they are members of the same species. And, I posit, the same "race".

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
Race is a biological construct. Culture is a social construct. We have been indoctrinated to think that culture = race. It doesn't. But, some cultures maintain that race explains various personal and sub-cultural ills.

Oh, and if a member of one race can breed with a member of another race, then they are members of the same species. And, I posit, the same "race".

Is culture and ethnicity synonymous?

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Dominic wrote:
Highlander wrote:
Race is a biological construct. Culture is a social construct. We have been indoctrinated to think that culture = race. It doesn't. But, some cultures maintain that race explains various personal and sub-cultural ills.

Oh, and if a member of one race can breed with a member of another race, then they are members of the same species. And, I posit, the same "race".

Is culture and ethnicity synonymous?


No. I don't know why, but "no". It seems that ethnicity is construct that links "race" and culture -- with some bond that is more political than scientific.

Let us examine the case of the Chinese orphan and the Ethiopian orphan adopted in infancy by someone known to me. Now, in their adolescence they are culturally 'Mericans, though genetically they are not at all. I posit that many would argue that they are ethnically Chinese or Ethiopian. But they aren't.

Another example is the politically tainted and oft misused statement that one drop of black blood makes one black -- and then ascribing meaning to that statement by bringing in references to United Stated slavery ... many of which are patently false, but which possess political currency. One drop of blood is simply one drop of homo sapiens blood ... refined by various blood types which have certain genetic distributions. Thus, in a massive transfusion, all of "black" blood, one Swede does not become black.

I suppose my answer would be to ask for a definition of "ethnicity". I doubt one could deliver a definition that is commonly accepted and not tainted with political influences.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:24 am 
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Highlander wrote:
Dominic wrote:
Highlander wrote:
Race is a biological construct. Culture is a social construct. We have been indoctrinated to think that culture = race. It doesn't. But, some cultures maintain that race explains various personal and sub-cultural ills.

Oh, and if a member of one race can breed with a member of another race, then they are members of the same species. And, I posit, the same "race".

Is culture and ethnicity synonymous?


No. I don't know why, but "no". It seems that ethnicity is construct that links "race" and culture -- with some bond that is more political than scientific.

Let us examine the case of the Chinese orphan and the Ethiopian orphan adopted in infancy by someone known to me. Now, in their adolescence they are culturally 'Mericans, though genetically they are not at all. I posit that many would argue that they are ethnically Chinese or Ethiopian. But they aren't.

Another example is the politically tainted and oft misused statement that one drop of black blood makes one black -- and then ascribing meaning to that statement by bringing in references to United Stated slavery ... many of which are patently false, but which possess political currency. One drop of blood is simply one drop of homo sapiens blood ... refined by various blood types which have certain genetic distributions. Thus, in a massive transfusion, all of "black" blood, one Swede does not become black.

I suppose my answer would be to ask for a definition of "ethnicity". I doubt one could deliver a definition that is commonly accepted and not tainted with political influences.


Leaving politics aside, people ultimately gravitate toward ethnicity above all else; above any phenotypical characteristics. And that's important because it tells us something about ourselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:32 am 
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I don't know that is a definition of ethnicity. And, it occurs to me, that attempts to define ethnicity are often circular. Which may illuminate the issue that ethnicity is whatever one wants it to be .... especially ideologically.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:14 am 
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Highlander wrote:
I don't know that is a definition of ethnicity. And, it occurs to me, that attempts to define ethnicity are often circular. Which may illuminate the issue that ethnicity is whatever one wants it to be .... especially ideologically.

I think it's important to distinguish things that are in vogue and is not rooted in something substantial. Eminem trying to be part of the black ethos isn't enough to reexamine definitions. It may be bringing an entirely new one into existence.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:08 am 
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You mean that, if I identify as black, then I am? That leads to things like GKC identifying as a 22 year old, culturally Albanian, genetically Ainu, Tagalog speaking, woman who likes to dress as a man who smokes pipes and reads books -- you'll have to ask him although his explanation will be torturous.

Actually, I identify as a stinking rich person. Your bill will arrive shortly.

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Benedicamus Domino!
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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:15 am 
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Highlander wrote:
You mean that, if I identify as black, then I am? That leads to things like GKC identifying as a 22 year old, culturally Albanian, genetically Ainu, Tagalog speaking, woman who likes to dress as a man who smokes pipes and reads books -- you'll have to ask him although his explanation will be torturous.

Actually, I identify as a stinking rich person. Your bill will arrive shortly.


I am indeed one who identifies as a 22 year old. Except that causes conflict and stress problems when I contemplate my 46 year old daughter. I need special consideration and safe places, at my demand, wherever I go.

As to the other points, I am in flux, currently. Except for the pipes and books bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Race as different Modes
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:53 am 
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Highlander wrote:
You mean that, if I identify as black, then I am? That leads to things like GKC identifying as a 22 year old, culturally Albanian, genetically Ainu, Tagalog speaking, woman who likes to dress as a man who smokes pipes and reads books -- you'll have to ask him although his explanation will be torturous.

Actually, I identify as a stinking rich person. Your bill will arrive shortly.

What I'm saying is that things come in and out of existence. And when they do, it happens en mass..........not when Whitey McShmigit decides he wants to be black.

The Afrikkans is a better example.

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