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 Post subject: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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From Fr. Henry Davis SJ's Moral and Pastoral Theology, Vol II
Quote:
Civil occupation are forbidden, such as public trading, markets, public buying and selling, unless there is a contrary legitimate custom or special indult in their favour...

And from Fr. Heribert Jone's Moral Theology,
Quote:
III. Commercial occupations are forbidden.

Forbidden in themselves are such activities as marketing, fairs, buying and selling, public auctions, shopping in stores. Local customs, however, justify some of these actions. It is not forbidden for private persons to confer or agree on the purchase or sale of cattle, lands, houses, etc.

Do you think the fact that stores are generally open in the the west (Canada and US in particular), constitutes as a legitimate custom? I'm thinking whether it would be lawful to go grocery shopping, or even go eat at a restaurant on a Sunday...


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Citizen
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Aside from certain critical businesses like pharmacies, hospitals and gas stations, stores in North America should be closed on Sundays.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Amon98 wrote:
Aside from certain critical businesses like pharmacies, hospitals and gas stations, stores in North America should be closed on Sundays.

There's nothing critical about gas stations, when I was growing up in PA they were closed on Sundays.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Jedi Master
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Eating at restaurants is widely accepted, and I see no particular problem with it. I try to avoid grocery shopping on Sundays, but if you need something, it's OK to go get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:10 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Canon law was changed. Traditionally, servile, commercial and judicial work were prohibited The 1983 CIC relaxed this

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:45 am 
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Can you cite the specific change? In general: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -lords-day


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:04 pm 
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While a law prohibiting businesses from being open on Sunday might be feasible in a Christian country, in our modern post-Christian, secular/ atheist society it is not something that is likely to happen. Indeed, I can foresee lawsuits asking why Christianity is being given preference over Judaism and Islam who observe their Sabbath on Saturday and Friday respectively. There would also be complaints from the Seventh Day Adventists of favoring one brand of Christianity over another.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:31 pm 
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It doesn't matter. Just propose the law. And with all due respect to our non-Christian neighbors, I think it can go through.

Now I can understand some of the Doom-weary posters here :)


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:55 pm 
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But he's our Doom and we love him anyway, even when we don't agree with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
But he's our Doom and we love him anyway, even when we don't agree with him.



I agree with Doom.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:24 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Amon98 wrote:
Can you cite the specific change? In general: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... -lords-day

Found this podcast by Jimmy Akin that pretty much sides with what people here are generally saying. I don't normally trust him, but the authority he cites is the CCC (don't know why I didn't think of looking there first). He goes through the reasoning behind it. Give it a listen.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:36 pm 
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While I don't think shopping or eating out or getting gas on Sundays is necessarily wrong, you might consider that people who work at those establishments would not have to work if not for others' going out on Sundays.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Sir! A dragon is threatening the West! No problem. And he's surrounded by secularists and post-modernists! No problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:37 pm 
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Amon98 wrote:
It doesn't matter. Just propose the law. And with all due respect to our non-Christian neighbors, I think it can go through.

Now I can understand some of the Doom-weary posters here :)


common sense and logic can indeed be wearying to those who prefer to live in a world of Make-Believe. If you think it is feasible to get a society filled with people whom even the ones calling themselves Christian are really practical atheists actually pass a law honoring Christianity all I can say is good luck with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
While I don't think shopping or eating out or getting gas on Sundays is necessarily wrong, you might consider that people who work at those establishments would not have to work if not for others' going out on Sundays.


Employers are usually willing to accommodate people they can go to church on Sunday morning and work Sunday afternoon and evening or they can go to church on Saturday evening and work Sunday morning I went a year-and-a-half working every single weekend Saturday and Sunday and I still found a way to get to Mass almost every week.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:11 pm 
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Citizen
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Doom wrote:
Amon98 wrote:
It doesn't matter. Just propose the law. And with all due respect to our non-Christian neighbors, I think it can go through.

Now I can understand some of the Doom-weary posters here :)


common sense and logic can indeed be wearying to those who prefer to live in a world of Make-Believe. If you think it is feasible to get a society filled with people whom even the ones calling themselves Christian are really practical atheists actually pass a law honoring Christianity all I can say is good luck with that.



Thank you for the good luck. Yes, I'm well aware of the current state of affairs/people. And the world of make-believe is where great ideas can start...


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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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1917 CIC
Can. 1248. On feastdays of precept, Mass must be heard. And one is to abstain from servile works, judicial acts (actibus forensibus), and also, unless there are legitimate customs or specific indults otherwise, public commerce, markets and other public buying and selling.

1983 CIC
Can. 1247 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover, they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying and Selling on Sundays
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:19 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Peregrinator wrote:
While I don't think shopping or eating out or getting gas on Sundays is necessarily wrong, you might consider that people who work at those establishments would not have to work if not for others' going out on Sundays.

Exactly.

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