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 Post subject: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:02 pm 
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The Atlanta "Journal-Constipation" is running a photo montage on its website of life in Georgia ca. 1944. This just happened to be the year that Trappist monks from Gethsemani Abbey in KY branched out and founded the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA. There are about 4 or 5 photos of the monks making preparations, including this one that I found a bit bothersome. I was taken aback to see a monk standing on the altar, even if it is to put up what appear to be Christmas decorations. Then I reread the caption which said that at the time of this photo shoot, the monks were setting up the monastery. That led me to believe that, at the time of this photo, the altar had not yet been consecrated, which (I'm supposing) would mean that technically, the monk is merely standing on a piece of sturdy furniture. Fr. Kenobi (or others with such knowledge), am I correct in my supposition, and if so, would that mean no monk would dare repeat such an act since the altar had been consecrated?

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The Atlanta "Journal-Constipation" is running a photo montage on its website of life in Georgia ca. 1944. This just happened to be the year that Trappist monks from Gethsemani Abbey in KY branched out and founded the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA. There are about 4 or 5 photos of the monks making preparations, including this one that I found a bit bothersome. I was taken aback to see a monk standing on the altar, even if it is to put up what appear to be Christmas decorations. Then I reread the caption which said that at the time of this photo shoot, the monks were setting up the monastery. That led me to believe that, at the time of this photo, the altar had not yet been consecrated, which (I'm supposing) would mean that technically, the monk is merely standing on a piece of sturdy furniture. Fr. Kenobi (or others with such knowledge), am I correct in my supposition, and if so, would that mean no monk would dare repeat such an act since the altar had been consecrated?

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conyersmonk.jpeg

i think there is overall just a lack of reverence anyway, in a lot of Churches. I wish all Churches would go back to the Traditionalist Mass


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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:05 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The Atlanta "Journal-Constipation" is running a photo montage on its website of life in Georgia ca. 1944. This just happened to be the year that Trappist monks from Gethsemani Abbey in KY branched out and founded the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA. There are about 4 or 5 photos of the monks making preparations, including this one that I found a bit bothersome. I was taken aback to see a monk standing on the altar, even if it is to put up what appear to be Christmas decorations. Then I reread the caption which said that at the time of this photo shoot, the monks were setting up the monastery. That led me to believe that, at the time of this photo, the altar had not yet been consecrated, which (I'm supposing) would mean that technically, the monk is merely standing on a piece of sturdy furniture. Fr. Kenobi (or others with such knowledge), am I correct in my supposition, and if so, would that mean no monk would dare repeat such an act since the altar had been consecrated?

Attachment:
conyersmonk.jpeg

i think there is overall just a lack of reverence anyway, in a lot of Churches. I wish all Churches would go back to the Traditionalist Mass


Read Mrs. Timmy's post again. This photo was apparently taken around 1944, when the "Traditionalist Mass" was all there was.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:06 pm 
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The way the altar is arranged, it appears to be ready for a high Mass – which obviously means it is fully setup for the Holy Sacrifice - unless I am missing something here. It should already be consecrated and contain a relic.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Alexandros wrote:
The way the altar is arranged, it appears to be ready for a high Mass – which obviously means it is fully setup for the Holy Sacrifice - unless I am missing something here. It should already be consecrated and contain a relic.

I realized the arrangement myself after I’d posted the photo. With all the dickering I had to do to upload that photo (the original was way too large), I’m ashamed I didn’t notice that sooner. :cry:

In other words, you make an excellent point, Alexandros. The fact that the altar is arranged for a High Mass would seem to make standing on the altar all the more egregious.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:47 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:

I think there is overall just a lack of reverence anyway, in a lot of Churches. I wish all Churches would go back to the Traditionalist Mass


What Mass do you think these Catholics attended in 1944? Do you think they were time traveling Novus Ordo Catholics?

If you think the lack of reverence in Mass started with Vatican II in the 1960s, then you need to watch the 1942 Bing Crosby movie 'Going My Way', it is a movie infected with 'the spirit of Vatican II' 20 years before the Council. The same could be said about that movie's sequel 'The Bells of Saint Mary's'

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:55 pm 
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Forget movies. Wacky stuff started happening in real life during the 1920s. Liturgical Movement experimentations with whitewashed churches, priest facing the people, and/or everyone gathered around the altar.

There was an article written in the 1940s for Orate Fratres called “My Dream Mass” where a priest had a “dream” about a future new Mass. It was essentially a description of the current Novus Ordo.

This stuff was bubbling up decades before the council, fueled by erroneous historical observations, and the spirit of Jansenism and Cranmer. All it took was the wrong people in charge at the right time to push it through.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:20 pm 
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Alexandros wrote:
Forget movies. Wacky stuff started happening in real life during the 1920s. Liturgical Movement experimentations with whitewashed churches, priest facing the people, and/or everyone gathered around the altar.


The National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan has its altar "in the round". I'm pretty sure it's been that way since before Vatican II.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:48 pm 
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So is the North American martyrs shrine in NY.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:00 pm 
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I visited that monastery back in the mid-nineties. The bonsai trees were lovely.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:09 pm 
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There is no irreverence here though. E.g, in veiling the cross on the top of large reredos, what else would you do? Or in stripping the altar after Maundy Thursday

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Finally, an answer! Thanks, PED :wave

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:53 am 
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Note too that he seems to be wearing something on his feet and that he is standing on a cloth to protect the altar linens.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:24 am 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
I visited that monastery back in the mid-nineties. The bonsai trees were lovely.

When Vince Dooley (a devout Catholic) was the Head Coach at UGA, he made a point of keeping the team out of Athens the night before a home game to keep them away from all the hullabaloo and focused on the task a hand. He’d put the team and assistant coaches up in a hotel in Madison (IIRC), about half an hour away, but he would overnight at the Monastery of the Holy Spirit there in Conyers. And that’s your Useless Fact of the Day. :salut:

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 pm 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
I visited that monastery back in the mid-nineties. The bonsai trees were lovely.




I did around 10 years later.

Bonsai trees were lovely. I bought a crucifix and a book.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:34 am 
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GKC wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I visited that monastery back in the mid-nineties. The bonsai trees were lovely.




I did around 10 years later.

Bonsai trees were lovely. I bought a crucifix and a book.


I bought a rosary, and met Fr. Lawrence and had a nice chat with him about life in the monastery. He was in his 90's, iirc.

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:17 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I visited that monastery back in the mid-nineties. The bonsai trees were lovely.

When Vince Dooley (a devout Catholic) was the Head Coach at UGA, he made a point of keeping the team out of Athens the night before a home game to keep them away from all the hullabaloo and focused on the task a hand. He’d put the team and assistant coaches up in a hotel in Madison (IIRC), about half an hour away, but he would overnight at the Monastery of the Holy Spirit there in Conyers. And that’s your Useless Fact of the Day. :salut:


i have been to the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in conyers ... bought some stuff in the gift shop too

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:03 am 
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Speed Racer wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The Atlanta "Journal-Constipation" is running a photo montage on its website of life in Georgia ca. 1944. This just happened to be the year that Trappist monks from Gethsemani Abbey in KY branched out and founded the Monastery of the Holy Spirit in Conyers, GA. There are about 4 or 5 photos of the monks making preparations, including this one that I found a bit bothersome. I was taken aback to see a monk standing on the altar, even if it is to put up what appear to be Christmas decorations. Then I reread the caption which said that at the time of this photo shoot, the monks were setting up the monastery. That led me to believe that, at the time of this photo, the altar had not yet been consecrated, which (I'm supposing) would mean that technically, the monk is merely standing on a piece of sturdy furniture. Fr. Kenobi (or others with such knowledge), am I correct in my supposition, and if so, would that mean no monk would dare repeat such an act since the altar had been consecrated?

Attachment:
conyersmonk.jpeg

i think there is overall just a lack of reverence anyway, in a lot of Churches. I wish all Churches would go back to the Traditionalist Mass

. This photo was apparently taken around 1944, when the "Traditionalist Mass" was all there was.


i don't like irreverence whether in 1944 or 2019. I am thinking that irreverence probably did not first appear on the scene at a particular time in history :scratch: could be wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
There is no irreverence here though. E.g, in veiling the cross on the top of large reredos, what else would you do? Or in stripping the altar after Maundy Thursday



Are you sure? He is decorating a Christmas tree, is that necessary? Also, my old parish used devices to veil statues and crucifixes instead of standing on altars. In the 1940s, ladders and a rod with a hook may do the job. Maybe it depends on the setup of the sanctuary?

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 Post subject: Re: Standing on the Altar?!?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:08 pm 
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Beautiful altar--much better than that hideous Novus Ordo table everyone has now.


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