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 Post subject: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:04 pm 
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Journeyman
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Most of the time, I think I kind of understand God, or at least His laws.. as written down in the Old T and New T, and as taught through the RCC down through the centuries

But sometimes God seems illogical

Since we humans can't understand everything about him, he comes across as illogical.. which is a problem for those of us who always demand logic... Hmmm..

If you can't handle a lack of logic, looks like you will have problems w/ God, lots of arguments with Him..etc..

laugh


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:19 pm 
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God is logic itself

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Doom wrote:
God is logic itself



We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of logical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear.

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:06 pm 
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Mary Ruth wrote:
Doom wrote:
God is logic itself



We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of logical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear.

Couldn't you say the same about illogical thought, "We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of illogical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear"?

I don't think God is illogical, but beyond logic.


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:41 pm 
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Doom is ... sigh ... right.

The statement "God is irrational" is definitely wrong if meant in its plain sense.

It is true to say that God can appear to be illogical, but that is because we do not have the perfect knowledge to provide the axioms and principles we would need to follow.

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:03 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Mary Ruth wrote:
Doom wrote:
God is logic itself



We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of logical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear.

Couldn't you say the same about illogical thought, "We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of illogical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear"?

I don't think God is illogical, but beyond logic.

No, the reverse doesn't hold. It just means we are flawed.

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:04 pm 
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I find the Bible, God's laws, and the teachings of the Church to be very logical.

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This is absurd.

- Justice Scalia, dissent, King v. Burwell.


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
=
Couldn't you say the same about illogical thought, "We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of illogical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear"?

I don't think God is illogical but beyond logic.



Illogic is not a property, it is not an entity that exists on its own it is the lack of a property, just as 'ugliness' is not a property, it is merely a lack of beauty, and evil is not a property but merely the lack of good.

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:13 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:

It is true to say that God can appear to be illogical, but that is because we do not have the perfect knowledge to provide the axioms and principles we would need to follow.

But then, the subject to whom God appears illogical is an illogical (imperfectly logical) subject, incapable of judging logical-ity of another.
Or, in simpler terms, who's illogical - "It's not You, it's me" :laughhard

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:57 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Doom is ... sigh ... right.

The statement "God is irrational" is definitely wrong if meant in its plain sense.

It is true to say that God can appear to be illogical, but that is because we do not have the perfect knowledge to provide the axioms and principles we would need to follow.


did i miss ash wednesday? is it lent already? ::):

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:41 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
I find the Bible, God's laws, and the teachings of the Church to be very logical.


In fact I've found it to be the only comprehensive worldview making sense of everything from rationality, existence, and revelation, down to history, science, and anything in between.

Post edit: making sense of rationality? I just re-read. :laughhard

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:20 pm 
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It does uniquely make sense of rationality....read up on Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:32 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
It does uniquely make sense of rationality....read up on Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism. :fyi:


I've read his book. Now that you reminded me of it, it does make sense. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:37 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
It does uniquely make sense of rationality....read up on Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism. :fyi:



I assume you're referring to "Where the Conflict Really Lies"?

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm 
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He may talk about the argument in that book, but the argument has been around for...must be more than 20 years now. I mean, actually, versions of the argument have been around for centuries. But Plantinga's version showed up in the 90's sometime, I reckon.

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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Journeyman
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Doom wrote:
God is logic itself

i know.. but again, since we don't understand him.. doesn't look like it


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:47 pm 
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Journeyman
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Mary Ruth wrote:
Doom wrote:
God is logic itself



We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of logical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear.

all humans a re capable of logical thought, when they WANT to be.

but lefties... yikes.. their logic is not logical

Being pregnant in an untimely manner is bad

Conclusion: We should legalize killing children

that is about as illogical as you c an get.. unless you live in some jungle or something


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Journeyman
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Bombadil wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Mary Ruth wrote:
Doom wrote:
God is logic itself



We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of logical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear.

Couldn't you say the same about illogical thought, "We are made in the image and likeness of God. If we are capable of illogical thought, that ability is simply a pale reflection of God whose image we bear"?

I don't think God is illogical, but beyond logic.

No, the reverse doesn't hold. It just means we are flawed.

it does hold--IF

God is only "illogical" in the sense of being --i dont know.. not understandable in terms of human logic (which admittedly is not a high bar soemtimes)


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 Post subject: Re: God is illogical
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:34 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
He may talk about the argument in that book, but the argument has been around for...must be more than 20 years now. I mean, actually, versions of the argument have been around for centuries. But Plantinga's version showed up in the '90s sometime, I reckon.



Well, he doesn't make a single argument, he makes a whole series of them, many of which seem original to himself.

For example, he points out that according to the strict Darwinian 'survival of the fittest' views, it is difficult if not impossible to explain the existence of music, or of mathematics, how come the human mind is so good at thinking abstractly, when there is clearly no evolutionary advantage to abstract thought, and indeed, due to the 'nerd factor' and the fact that the men who are most skilled at thinking abstractly tend to be the ones who are least likely to mate, and the ones who are the least likely to be gifted fighters or hunters, it would seem that evolution would have eradicated the ability to engage in abstract thought from human DNA millions of years ago.

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