Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:36 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
My boyfriend and I have been dating for a year now. He was raised traditional catholic and I was raised vatican 2 catholic. Has anyone dealt with a relationship like this? We both do not really want to switch to either religion. How do weddings work? Adding kids to the mix later, how do we raise them faith wise? We both love each other and just want to make it work! Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:40 pm 
Offline
Board Administrator
Board Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:44 am
Posts: 19093
Religion: Catholic
I don't understand what you mean. Could you give some specific examples of what you perceive are the differences?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:48 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
If you google Traditional Catholic you will see many differences including mass style, hell beliefs, and views of the pope. They are just the version before Vatican 2 happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:54 pm 
Offline
Board Administrator
Board Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:44 am
Posts: 19093
Religion: Catholic
Mass style is different, yes, but that shouldn't be an insurmountable problem if one realizes they are at the heart the same. Again, I would be interested in what you think is different about teachings on hell or the pope or anything significant. The Faith did not change at Vatican 2.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:19 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
They believe that if you dont live your traditional faith like you were taught or if you switch to another religion from traditional you will go to hell. They are not in union with the pope so they do not think he has any power. If we were to raise kids in his faith I wouldnt want to teach them that if they decide to do something else they will go to hell. Also in most sermons the priest mentions something about vatican 2 every time in a negative way. I wouldnt be so opposed to it if they didnt bad mouth us so much:/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:34 pm 
Offline
Board Administrator
Board Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:44 am
Posts: 19093
Religion: Catholic
If he is a sedevacantist that would be an issue. Would you both be open to a parish that adheres to the traditional practice but is in communion with Rome such as the FSSP?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:20 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
I attend regularly the Traditional Latin Mass at a Diocesan sanctioned TLM Parish in complete communion with the local ordinary and Holy Father. My girlfriend attends regularly a Novus Ordo parish, and while she likes some of the beauty of the TLM, she has a strong preference for the new form.

It does occasionally cause some tension, but at the end of the day we're not a "Traditional" and a "Vatican 2" Catholic, we're just two Catholics of the Roman rite attempting to live according to our faith and prepare ourselves for the next stage of life.

From the sounds of it your boyfriend seems in a different boat, and sorry to be blunt but there are a few things I feel need to be said.
Firstly, do not call yourself a "Vatican 2 Catholic", because if you are in union with the See of Rome and he is not, you are simply Catholic and he is simply not. As harsh as it is, we should not flatter people who wish to be "Catholics" outside the Church.

While it is true that the Church has and does still teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church (it is not permitted to speak of this topic in depth on this board, please try and find some good resources on it from a source in union with the Holy See) but it also teaches that people who deny the authority of the Pope (schismatics is a strong word for this group) separate themselves from the Church. You can not look at this as a relationship between two Catholics if your boyfriend does not accept that Pope Francis is the true Pope, this is what we call a dogmatic fact and it must be believed by Catholics.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:23 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
To be clear do you know the name of your boyfriend's community?

Is he part of the Society of St. Pius X?
They disobey the Pope, but accept him as the true Pope. They are/have been (?) on the path to reconciling with Rome.

Is he part of the Society of St. Pius X Resistance?
There's not likely to reconcile with Rome in the foreseeable future

Is he part of the Society of St. Pius V?
They do not accept the Pope at all, and are not Catholic consequently.

ETA:

Groups like the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) or the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP) are in full communion with Rome along with many diocesan parishes that offer the TLM

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:11 am 
Offline
The Exterminator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 27187
Location: The Old Forest
Religion: Númenórean Catholic
I know some SSPXers who were recently saying that someone I know hasn't been going to mass. Turns out they were going to a Latin mass at a diocesan parish. They don't consider anything other than going to an SSPX mass valid. They say the rest of the church is in schism and they are the true church.

Frankly, the range of opinions with SSPXers as a whole seems awfully Protestant.

You're just going to have to find out exactly where he stands because there are several ways it could go.

_________________
This is absurd.

- Justice Scalia, dissent, King v. Burwell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:13 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Bombadil wrote:
I know some SSPXers who were recently saying that someone I know hasn't been going to mass. Turns out they were going to a Latin mass at a diocesan parish. They don't consider anything other than going to an SSPX mass valid. They say the rest of the church is in schism and they are the true church.

Frankly, the range of opinions with SSPXers as a whole seems awfully Protestant.

You're just going to have to find out exactly where he stands because there are several ways it could go.


The SSPX has never officially said that any new sacraments are invalid; what there parishioners think is another question but also not entirely under their control.

ETA: They have said that (1) the intention of the celebrant may be doubtful at a Novus Ordo mass (which ignores what Apostolici Curae says about intention) and (2)while they do not say the translation "for all" necessarily invalidates the mass, it does make it more doubtful.

That's a bit different from simply dismissing the NO as invalid, niether are particularly strong doubts.

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:04 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78356
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
The "for all" translation disappeared in 2010.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:28 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I know some SSPXers who were recently saying that someone I know hasn't been going to mass. Turns out they were going to a Latin mass at a diocesan parish. They don't consider anything other than going to an SSPX mass valid. They say the rest of the church is in schism and they are the true church.

Frankly, the range of opinions with SSPXers as a whole seems awfully Protestant.

You're just going to have to find out exactly where he stands because there are several ways it could go.


The SSPX has never officially said that any new sacraments are invalid; what there parishioners think is another question but also not entirely under their control.

ETA: They have said that (1) the intention of the celebrant may be doubtful at a Novus Ordo mass (which ignores what Apostolici Curae says about intention) and (2)while they do not say the translation "for all" necessarily invalidates the mass, it does make it more doubtful.

That's a bit different from simply dismissing the NO as invalid, niether are particularly strong doubts.


Good catch on Apostolicae Curae.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:32 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm
Posts: 1585
Location: Canada
Religion: la foi Catholique
Church Affiliations: K of C 4th Degree
Back to the OP:

There are a lot of groups that disagree with Rome, but if they don't accept Francis as Pope they are not Catholic

_________________
In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:48 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:26 pm
Posts: 4
Religion: Catholic
Besides the pope beliefs, they believe there are many more rules to follow and if you don’t, you will go to hell. Like not following their faith or not raising kids in their religion. How do we go about this in the future?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:33 am 
Offline
The Exterminator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 27187
Location: The Old Forest
Religion: Númenórean Catholic
That is standard Catholic teaching.

I think we really need more information.

_________________
This is absurd.

- Justice Scalia, dissent, King v. Burwell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:12 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39753
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The "for all" translation disappeared in 2010.

In most translations, yes.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:14 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39753
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
ForeverFaithful wrote:
ETA: They have said that (1) the intention of the celebrant may be doubtful at a Novus Ordo mass (which ignores what Apostolici Curae says about intention) and (2)while they do not say the translation "for all" necessarily invalidates the mass, it does make it more doubtful.

Not just Apostolicae Curae but all of Catholic sacramental theology. Honestly I chalk it up to the baleful influence of Bp. Williamson on the SSPX American District (he was seminary rector for many years).

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:35 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78356
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Esalsa wrote:
Besides the pope beliefs, they believe there are many more rules to follow and if you don’t, you will go to hell. Like not following their faith or not raising kids in their religion. How do we go about this in the future?

Honestly? You are begging for trouble by marrying someone with whom you have such a crucial disagreement. Asking people on a message board won't help. You and he need to sit down together, preferably with a third party you both trust, and begin to discuss these things. Because the most likely results of the relationship you're describing are (1) divorce within a few years or (2) a household where no one practices any faith and is bitter about it.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Vatican 2 Catholic and Traditional Catholic Relationship
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:12 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 9:16 pm
Posts: 686
Religion: Catholic
I always find it odd that some believe there is more than one religion w/in Christendom... :scratch:

_________________
One of the most amazing things about the bible is that so much of it is scriptural!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 19 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


Jump to: