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 Post subject: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:24 pm 
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I'm confused about the Catholic Church's position in regard to marriages that are not the Catholic sacrament of marriage.

If a couple are not married but living together, and at least one of them is Catholic, they are "living in sin" according to traditional Catholic teaching.

If a non-Catholic couple were legally married in a Christian wedding, but not in a Catholic wedding, are they "living in sin" according to traditional Catholic teaching?

If a couple were legally married in a Christian wedding, but not in a Catholic wedding, and one of the couple is a Catholic, are they both "living in sin", or is just the Catholic "living in sin" or are neither "living in sin"?

If a couple were legally married in a non-Christian religious wedding, and one of them is Catholic, are they both "living in sin", or is just the Catholic "living in sin" or are neither "living in sin"?

If a couple were legally married without any kind of religious ceremony, and one of them is Catholic, are they both "living in sin", or is just the Catholic "living in sin" or are neither "living in sin"?

If a couple were legally married without any kind of religious ceremony, and neither of them is Catholic, and then just one of them becomes a Catholic, is the Catholic required to make the marriage more acceptable to the Catholic Church, by trying to persuade his/her wife/husband to get married again in the Catholic way (although already legally married)?


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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Our Lady's Gladiator
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torn, is that you? :shock: 8-)

i'm pretty sure the answer to your last question is yes, the marriage would need to be convalidated in the Church in order for it to be a sacramental marriage

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:33 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
torn, is that you? :shock: 8-)

i'm pretty sure the answer to your last question is yes, the marriage would need to be convalidated in the Church in order for it to be a sacramental marriage

So what happens if the non-Catholic spouse doesn't want a religious marriage, is the Catholic then "living in sin" according to the Church? Suppose they have children, it wouldn't be good if the marriage fell apart, because the Church insisted they were "living in sin"?


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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:36 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:

If a couple are not married but living together, and at least one of them is Catholic, they are "living in sin" according to traditional Catholic teaching.



If a couple is living together without marriage, they are living in sin regardless of the religious affiliation of either of them, even if both of them are hardcore militant atheists.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:49 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
torn, is that you? :shock: 8-)

i'm pretty sure the answer to your last question is yes, the marriage would need to be convalidated in the Church in order for it to be considered a sacramental valid marriage

So what happens if the non-Catholic spouse doesn't want a religious marriage, is the Catholic then "living in sin" according to the Church? Suppose they have children, it wouldn't be good if the marriage fell apart, because the Church insisted they were "living in sin"?


fttcm (fixed that to correct myself)

they would not be viewed as "living in sin".... a civil marriage is recognized by the Church ... it just lacks canonical form


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The Catholic Church believes that marriages entered into by non-Catholics in their particular church, or wherever they may take place, are valid. In the eyes of the Church, even two atheists or agnostics who are married civilly before a judge or magistrate enter into a valid marriage.

Convalidation Requirements: Catholics, however, are bound to observe a certain form of marriage ritual in order that their marriage be valid. Canon law—the law of the Church—requires that Catholics enter into marriage by free mutual consent that is witnessed in a church by an authorized bishop, priest, or deacon and at least two other witnesses. Marriages in which one or both parties are Catholic and which are not witnessed by an authorized bishop, priest, or deacon, or which do not receive proper permission to take place in another forum, are considered invalid in the eyes of the Church.

It may be that the Catholic who entered into marriage outside the Church did not realize that these requirements existed, but more often, it is because one or both of the spouses was not free to marry in the Catholic Church because of a previous marriage or because they were awaiting an annulment. Also, the Catholic partner(s) may not have been active in the Church and did not consider having a Catholic wedding.


hth

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:51 am 
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Doom wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:

If a couple are not married but living together, and at least one of them is Catholic, they are "living in sin" according to traditional Catholic teaching.



If a couple is living together without marriage, they are living in sin regardless of the religious affiliation of either of them, even if both of them are hardcore militant atheists.


This.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:18 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Doom wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:

If a couple are not married but living together, and at least one of them is Catholic, they are "living in sin" according to traditional Catholic teaching.



If a couple is living together without marriage, they are living in sin regardless of the religious affiliation of either of them, even if both of them are hardcore militant atheists.


This.


Hardcore militant atheists :laughhard I'm sorry but that made me laugh


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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:06 am 
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Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:17 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:


Pastafarians.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:24 am 
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An Austin resident, eh? That's a mighty tough area of Purgatory you're stuck in.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:47 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
swing a cat

:cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:57 am 
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Riverboat wrote:
An Austin resident, eh? That's a mighty tough area of Purgatory you're stuck in.

Not anymore, amigo. I moved to Nashville 2 years ago. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:00 am 
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GKC wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:


Pastafarians.

You never cease to amaze me, GKC. Is there any topic upon which you can’t intelligently converse?

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:19 am 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
GKC wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:


Pastafarians.

You never cease to amaze me, GKC. Is there any topic upon which you can’t intelligently converse?

He can't intelligently converse on "why reading is not good" :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:42 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
GKC wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:


Pastafarians.

You never cease to amaze me, GKC. Is there any topic upon which you can’t intelligently converse?

He can't intelligently converse on "why reading is not good" :fyi:

Sure, he can. He will advise you on a cornucopia of words preferable to the the too-bland adjective “good.” Words such as diverting, entertaining, relaxing, enjoyable, salubrious, developmental, inspiring....

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
GKC wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Heck, in Austin, you can’t swing a cat without hitting a car bearing the unofficial logo of the fictional “church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.” :roll:


Pastafarians.

You never cease to amaze me, GKC. Is there any topic upon which you can’t intelligently converse?



I think there is, but I'm not sure.

In this case, as in the case of Discordianism or the Church of the SubGenius, it comes from my hanging around SF cons.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Nobody really answered my questions. Perhaps I asked too many in a too confusing way. I'll risk being personal: I have a child who is almost ten months old. Her father dislikes all religions, especially all Christian religions, he won't agree to getting religiously married. He might be able to be persuaded to agree to getting married in a registry office, would that be better than if we we continued our relationship without any marriage, or would it be better to have no marriage and end our relationship?


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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:26 pm 
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#1 is the close to optimum choice of those presented

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Nobody really answered my questions.


All of your questions were answered, and have been answered before. The fact that you do not like the answers you were given does not mean that your questions were not answered.

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 Post subject: Re: Marriages that are not Catholic marriages
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:21 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Nobody really answered my questions. Perhaps I asked too many in a too confusing way. I'll risk being personal: I have a child who is almost ten months old. Her father dislikes all religions, especially all Christian religions, he won't agree to getting religiously married. He might be able to be persuaded to agree to getting married in a registry office, would that be better than if we we continued our relationship without any marriage, or would it be better to have no marriage and end our relationship?


What is best is the both of sit down with your pastor. Maybe even separately. Have an open and honest discussion.

If you determine your vocation is marriage, work through the marriage prep with your pastor. If pastor determines you have good reason, he will request permission from the Bishop for you two to be excused (dispensed) from form (marriage in the Church building) AND permission to marry a non-Christian.

The big question, is this man going to help you and your child get to heaven? Will he support your faith even if he does not share it? Will he ridicule and persecute you in your home because of your faith? Will he attempt to dissuade your child from practicing the faith?

Only you (with pastoral help perhaps) can determine that.

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