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Non-Standard Pronouns
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Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Non-Standard Pronouns

Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?

Since it's no longer unheard of that someone born male will wish to be refereed to as "she" or even "they", I'm unsure how to response.

If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men. Rom 12:18

It's a lot of conflict to stick your neck out on this issue, but if it's a sin then it's a compromise one can't make.

Author:  Doom [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

ForeverFaithful wrote:
Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?



Why would the Church do such a thing? :scratch:

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Doom wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Has the Church released any guidelines on using non-standard pronouns?



Why would the Church do such a thing? :scratch:


To give some moral guidance. They have guidelines on hypnosis

Author:  Mrs. Timmy [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

God forbid that He allow Holy Mother Church to commit such grammatical and theological heresy! As a Catholic and as a grammarian, I cannot more firmly object to my God being referred to using anything but a masculine pronoun. As it is, my hackles go up enough when pronouns referring to the Godhead are not capitalized.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

Author:  Mrs. Timmy [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

That really chaps my hide. I've studied French, Russian, Spanish, and know a little Latin, Mandarin, and Korean. English is the only language whose speakers seem to have a hangup over the gender of pronouns. What a pack of nonsense.

Author:  Doom [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

ForeverFaithful wrote:

To give some moral guidance. They have guidelines on hypnosis


Grammar has nothing to do with morality. At any rate, I sincerely hope the hierarchy of the Church has more important things to do with their time than worrying about a silly ideological fad that is only of interest to a handful of daffy American leftists.

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.

That really chaps my hide. I've studied French, Russian, Spanish, and know a little Latin, Mandarin, and Korean. English is the only language whose speakers seem to have a hangup over the gender of pronouns. What a pack of nonsense.

Not true anymore.

Look up Latinx (rather than Latino/latina ... Though some propose Latine). Many Spanish teachers have been producing material that is gender fluid. Even one Latin teacher I know (and more trying to accommodate alternative genders in class)


Even French... Iel, ael or ille are used by LGBTQ Francophones. But, lacking a neuter, this ends up being more written than spoken.

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

Author:  Mrs. Timmy [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

I don’t see how. I’m a professional writer and having to be “pc” in my work is a royal pain in the backside.

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Mrs. Timmy wrote:
ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think the OP is asking about alternative pronouns for various perceived forms of nonstandard sexuality.


It will make my professional work much easy to just "go along" but is it cooperating with sin? If yes then I can't

I don’t see how. I’m a professional writer and having to be “pc” in my work is a royal pain in the backside.


Canadian legislation and University statues on these points are ambiguous

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

It's not formal cooperation, and probably remote material cooperation.

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It's not formal cooperation, and probably remote material cooperation.


So there is a probable opinion that simply as a way of keeping peace it is without sin?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.

Author:  Peregrinator [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.

What if a person is professionally required to refer to a man as "she" or "her"?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

That one, I don't have a good feel for.

Author:  Peregrinator [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That one, I don't have a good feel for.

My own view is that it is probably a species of lying, unless perhaps one views "she" as shorthand for "he who prefers to be called 'she'". But that strikes me as a kind of mental reservation.

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
What does "probable opinion" have to do with it? But I can't see how a person would be bound (barring some sort of exceptional circumstance) not to use them if professionally required.


By probable opinion, I just mean an opinion that can be followed in good conscience.

To be clear the particular case I mean is someone might request to be referred to as "they" in the third person, because this individual does not wish to be identified as male or female.

Again Canadian law on this matter is ambiguous. The now infamous case of Jordan Peterson who was told that his action by the University of Toronto might be illegal if the legislation he was criticizing passed (it did) was also told by a law professor that his actions could not be tried as hate speech and that he was just fear mongering.

I am not aware of any actual cases involving this issue, and even though the legislation passed a few years ago, I am not aware of any legal action taken against Dr. Peterson.

Author:  ForeverFaithful [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Peregrinator wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
That one, I don't have a good feel for.

My own view is that it is probably a species of lying, unless perhaps one views "she" as shorthand for "he who prefers to be called 'she'". But that strikes me as a kind of mental reservation.


I have an uncle who was once talking about a transgendered individual who seemed to be making a point of emphasizing with his inflection every time that he was using "her" preferred pronouns.

It seemed like a statement of belief more than anything.

That being said though, if it's a sin then it's a hill to die on. If it's not a sin, I'll avoid it as much as possible, but if I can't I'll simply use the words to avoid sanction.

Author:  Pro Ecclesia Dei [ Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-Standard Pronouns

Just call them by first name, no pronouns.

Or use the singular they. While I don't like the current reason for it, singular they is, contrary to prescriptivist wags, perfect English, having been used for as long as there has been print at least. And in conversation even easier.

So

Carol went to the store, and they said it was a mess. (Carol is originally a male name, but whatever)

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